This week on The Digital Download, we're delving into the fascinating journey of Tony Nneke, a man who's carved his own path to success. From his early aspirations in the music industry to his current role as a Salesforce Account Executive, Tony's story is one of resilience, adaptability, and embracing the unexpected.  

Join us as we explore questions like:

• How did Tony navigate the challenges of early fatherhood while pursuing his career goals?

• What role did his passion for music and poetry play in his professional development?

• How did Tony's experiences in telemarketing shape his approach to sales and customer relationships?

• What lessons can we learn from Tony's ability to adapt and thrive in various roles and industries?

• How does Tony's story challenge conventional notions of career paths and success?

Tony's journey is a testament to the power of perseverance, self-belief, and embracing the twists and turns that life throws our way. His insights will inspire you to rethink your own career trajectory and discover new possibilities for growth and fulfillment.  

We strive to make The Digital Download an interactive experience. Bring your questions. Bring your insights. Audience participation is highly encouraged!  

This week we were joined by our Special Guest -

• Tony Nneke, a Salesforce Account Executive.

This week's Host was -

• Bertrand Godillot, Founder and Managing Partner of Odysseus & Co, a proud DLA Ignite partner

Panelists included -

• Tim Hughes, CEO & Co-founder of DLA Ignite,

• Adam Gray, Co-founder of a DLA Ignite

Transcript of The Digital Download 2025-02-14

Bertrand Godillot [00:00:06]:

download. Oops. Sorry, guys. Got carried away. Good afternoon, good morning, and good day every wherever you may be joining us from. Welcome to another edition of the Digital Download, the longest running weekly business talk show on LinkedIn Live. Now globally syndicated on TuneIn Radio through IBGR, the world's number one business talk, news, and strategy radio network. Today, we are delving into the fascinating journey of Tony Niki, a man who's carved his own path to success.

Bertrand Godillot [00:00:45]:

Sorry. From his early aspirations in the music industry to his current role as a sales account executive at Salesforce. Tony's story is one of resilience, adaptability, and embracing the unexpected. But before we bring Tony on, let's go around the set and introduce everyone. While we are doing this, why don't you in the audience reach out to a friend, ping them, and have them join us? We strive to make the digital download an interactive experience. Audience participation is highly encouraged. Adam, would you like to kick us off, please?

Adam Gray [00:01:23]:

Hi, everybody. I'm Adam Gray. I'm cofounder of DLA Ignite, and I'm very much looking forward to today's chat with our dear friend, Tony. I always find that these these weekly shows are fascinating because we cover such a diverse breadth of topics. You know, not not just people's area of expertise, but but, what they talk about, what their passions are. You know, we've had everything from being entrepreneurial through to to running your own worm farm on on the digital download. And and I just love the fact that that the audience never know quite what they're gonna get when they turn up.

Bertrand Godillot [00:02:01]:

It's a little bit of fresh air in our week. I agree. Thanks for that, Adam. Tim.

Tim Hughes [00:02:07]:

Thank you. Welcome, everybody. My name is Tim Hughes, and I'm the CEO and cofounder of DLA Knight. And I'm also famous for writing the book, Social Selling Techniques to Influence Buyers and Changemakers.

Bertrand Godillot [00:02:19]:

Thanks for that. Thanks, Tim. As I said, this week on the digital download, we'll speak with Tony. His journey is a testament of the power of perseverance, self belief, and embracing the twists and turns of that life, throws, your way our way. Sorry. His insights will inspire you to rethink your own career trajectory and discover new possibilities for growth and fulfillment. Let's bring him on. Tony, good morning, and welcome.

Tony Nneke [00:02:56]:

Yes. Yes. Good afternoon. Yes. Welcome.

Bertrand Godillot [00:02:59]:

Tony, let's, start by having you tell us a little bit about, more about you, your background, and what got you where you are today. Yeah.

Tony Nneke [00:03:12]:

First of all, thank you for the the the intro. I was Of course. Thinking who is this person they're speaking of? But, yeah, a bit about me. Yeah. Tony Nechi, 45 years old, father of three, married, sixteen years, and been my been my wife for twenty two Two years, that's that's what I always say sometimes to customers, etcetera. But background, I'm I'm a lover of music, always had been. I dabble in poetry, which I share on LinkedIn. Prior to that, I had aspirations of conquering the music industry.

Tony Nneke [00:03:50]:

I say with a smile now. That was very serious. When I was 14, 15, 16, that was that was that was my goal. I was performing around London, writing lyrics, writing songs. I was in a group, and I learned a lot about myself in that in that phase of, like, just just, you know, meeting new people, networking, but pushing stuff out there and not really having a plan, kinda driven on impulse and passion of just wanting to to do this and and share why I believe it was talent, as well. Then for, oh, there's a business side of it that I need to learn, so I better go to uni and, realize there's some uni university courses on this, which which surprised me. And that's actually where I met my wife. I wanna I put a flyer for an event I was promoting in her car.

Tony Nneke [00:04:36]:

I will say when I lived in London, I was I was sort of ignorant. What I mean by that is, I didn't drive, and that's not that's not why I was in. But but what I mean is, train stations everywhere. Every road in London was a train station. Didn't need to drive, so I didn't really know how cars worked. So when I when I put the the fly with her in her windscreen and it made the noise, I thought I'd I'd set that off, but she'd obviously seen me from from me from far. Unfortunately, doing running joke, and that's how we kind of, you know, started speaking. I apologize, and she said it's, you know, it's fine.

Tony Nneke [00:05:06]:

I mean, we started conversating. But long story short, I I did the music course there. And then let's say, you know, romantics, and year or two down the line, I'm gonna be a dad. It's like, okay. I'm a student loans. I'm working part time at Lidl's. I'm getting benefits, for for a part where I'm staying in in in London. I need to kind of really rethink this.

Tony Nneke [00:05:33]:

Well, actually, not even rethink. Think now what I'm doing. So, I I've decided that I needed to embark on a professional career or what I'm doing professionally in terms of, I say, the corporate world and and less less maverick, and see if I can kind of transfer any talents that I might have learned, into the into the corporate world. And and that's kind of what led me to where I am today, really. So when you talk about kind of navigating, I didn't have this master plan. It was just more, in my opinion, needed to do the right thing, follow my passion initially. And then it's like, okay. How can I do right for my, soon to be child that's not us to be here? And my my, girlfriend at the time who's obviously now leaning on me saying, well, do do you have a plan? What what how how do we do this? And convince her that staying with me is the right thing to do as well.

Tony Nneke [00:06:19]:

So that's kind of what led me in a little bit of my background and what I try to share on LinkedIn and and people I speak to.

Bertrand Godillot [00:06:26]:

Excellent. Well, thanks for that, Tony. Hi, David. Thank you for joining. Tony, let's start with a foundational question. What advice would you give to young professionals facing unexpected life changes that may disrupt their career plans?

Tony Nneke [00:06:53]:

Think you straight back to me. One, it's not the end of the world, which I don't know about you, but I was very much more dramatic when I was younger. So now what I do now, my life is over. You know? Like, I was as I said, I was just gonna be a a musician. I didn't think of anything else whatsoever. So the how so then to even think about navigating this, like, how? Who do I know? The how? So I feel like first and foremost, just know it's not the end of the world. Try and view this as an opportunity to do something different, maybe something new, or or even something that you maybe wanted to have done but not thought you needed to do. So I think try to see the opportunity, try and see it as a positive, and, just know that that's time to just start speaking to other people.

Tony Nneke [00:07:38]:

You know? That's what I did. I started to think about, okay, well, what industries are good to go into? So I started to see people speak to people who I thought are doing well for themselves, are successful. How how did you do? How did you get into the professional world? What what qualifications did you follow? Who did you speak to? So I think start to do that. I think the more you start to take action in those positive steps to move forward, the less of a negative impact it can be on you because you're kind of taking a bit of control as opposed to it's happening to you. I know for me, it was very much this is happening to me. What do I do? Very, you know, was very sort of, scared at the time.

Tim Hughes [00:08:14]:

And and that's and and so so you you were in a situation where you were, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna be a musician, and therefore, that was in effect the swim lane that you were in. You weren't looking for anything else.

Tony Nneke [00:08:27]:

Yep.

Tim Hughes [00:08:28]:

And so when you had to pivot, you actually went to your network or or friends and say, so what do you do?

Tony Nneke [00:08:35]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was because I I was I was very, single-minded, like I said. So in my head was, if if you're gonna do something, you have to believe that you are it. Even if you're not, like, where you fit you should be, you gotta believe you're, you know, either the best or you're this great musician, whatever. So when people were doing what they were doing in other professions, I'd I'd I'd never really used to ask questions. I wasn't I wasn't I didn't sort of want to know because I'm like, well, I'm I'm gonna be a nice.

Tony Nneke [00:09:02]:

So I I just wanna know you as a person, but I don't don't need to know about your job or what you do for a living. And so I just I just didn't really ask those type of questions. So when it then, you know, dawned in me that, I might need to sort of, you know, navigate in a different direction, I started to ask questions. And and and, actually, it opened up my eyes to to to, I don't know, call it a whole new world, not to sound cliche, but you start to learn what they do. And it was like, wow. I didn't I didn't know this. I just used to hang out and maybe talk football or I'll show my music to you and, you know, and I thought, what kind of person was I? I just didn't really ask them about what they're doing day to day. So I had to ask these questions.

Tony Nneke [00:09:38]:

And by doing that, they advised me, oh, maybe we're gonna go into IT. And and then I learned this whole different drafts of roles within IT and different professionals and different companies, and it just opened up my eyes. So, you know, in one aspect, it forced me to to dig a bit deeper into people and and and learn and build deeper connections than just what I liked.

Adam Gray [00:10:01]:

One of the things that I find really interesting is, how you have developed over the last couple of years as an individual. So, and and I think that that sharing your journey around this might be really helpful for other people that are facing, I guess, business challenges.

Tony Nneke [00:10:23]:

Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:10:24]:

So so, you know, you're you're within a well respected, organization. You're you're you're doing really well. You've got a very clearly defined job role. And all of the stuff that defines you as a person, so the music, the poetry, the family man, the commitment to the people that you love, all of that stuff, you've kind of put that in a hold all and zipped it up and put it in the corner of the the face that you show to the world. Yeah. And then, you know, you you go on this this journey of of self discovery, and all of sudden you realize that those things that you thought weren't relevant are the very things that make you really attractive to people. Mhmm. And, you know, you start to share your poetry and thinking, oh my god.

Adam Gray [00:11:10]:

This is amazing. I really love this. And I remember when you sent me your your Spotify.

Tony Nneke [00:11:14]:

Yeah. That was it. Yeah. It's

Adam Gray [00:11:16]:

like, yeah. Here's what I did. And I played it to my son, and he's like, oh my god. This is really good stuff. And and that stuff that that irrespective of where I mean and you're obviously very good at those things. But irrespective of whether you're good or bad at those things, they define you as a person because those are the things that you choose to do rather than, of course, to do. Yeah. So so how does somebody that that is in a role and wants to start to differentiate themselves, how do they bring those things that define them forward and start to share who they really are and all of the benefits that that brings?

Tony Nneke [00:11:54]:

That's a very good question. How? I think they need to think about the the types of relationships they want to build with people. And that that's whether it's colleagues or or, customers or or just just generally. Right? Because I've like and I know we said this before, Adam, but it's it's if you meet someone for the first time, how would you approach them? And then it's you wanna the more you can be yourself, then the more people will gravitate to you, hopefully. Or the more or the more your your your clan, let's say, will gravitate to you and you can start to be yourself. And the more you're yourself, then again, the more the deeper and the better conversations you have. So I think you've got you've got to start there in terms of what what type of relationships do you want. You know? And, yes, I work in sales, but you just generally, you don't want a sort of a transactional relationship.

Tony Nneke [00:12:45]:

Right? You know, where I've had friends who were no longer friends as such now, but where it's like you you feel like you're you're the giver, the taker. So you're not you're you're not gaining anything, you're not learning anything, and they're they're just taking this. So so it's maybe transaction. You want a connection and rapport building. So I think the more you give of yourself, that you should receive that back in time. Because, obviously, you have to go through what I call that, you know, bad eggs, bad apples, etcetera, until they know they weren't the right people or whatever. So I think it's taking that first step just to be more honest, but you have to start, like, what types of sort of relationships do I work with my customers, my prospects, whether it's someone and me on LinkedIn, how how authentic that wanna be. And then you generally will start to see if that and equally then, for me, it's less of a charade.

Tony Nneke [00:13:29]:

Because when I first started, I was being somebody that I'm not. You know, and I thought I needed to be that because for acceptance or what have you. But there's only so there's only so many times you can sort of keep up that lie yourself. So, actually, it's it's a bit refreshing and relieving to be that this is me. It's what I like, stuff I'm into. Let's talk about it and and and and go from there. Talk to answer that question.

Adam Gray [00:13:54]:

So how scary was that? When when you first kind of opened that that box and said to people, here's who I am, how did you feel when you started to do that?

Tony Nneke [00:14:06]:

Oui. The anxiety levels were through the roof. That's let's just say that. Yeah. They were through the roof. So so, yeah, I I felt very nervous. And and and a lot of it was just, you know, my own judgment. I built this thing.

Tony Nneke [00:14:24]:

You mustn't do this. You must be this way this way. So I'm I'm I'm I was going against my own code, my own programming. So it didn't. It's like, what are you doing? So all all the signals of trying to protect me was coming from me, let alone what I thought might be negative comments or what have you. So there was that. And then there's an image that you fit you're portraying that that you then think being your offensive self might break. And then it's so yeah.

Tony Nneke [00:14:48]:

So very, very nerve wracking. But it was interesting because a lot of it was just inner thoughts like, well, how how much do you value this image that you've built up that's not really you then? Like, why are you holding on to that? Like, put yourself and see what happens. What's what's what's sort of the worst that can happen? And it feels better now because it means if when I do my poems, I don't sort of feel a way to do I don't feel like, oh, it's not the right platform or environment because I've been doing it. So it enables me to continue being myself and and be more comfortable in in who I am or or who I'm choosing to

Bertrand Godillot [00:15:21]:

be.

Tim Hughes [00:15:22]:

Can I share something with you, Tony?

Tony Nneke [00:15:24]:

Yeah. Of course, Tim.

Tim Hughes [00:15:25]:

Yeah. Okay. So this week, I was very lucky to go and see the new, Led Zeppelin film, Becoming Led Zeppelin.

Bertrand Godillot [00:15:32]:

Wow.

Tim Hughes [00:15:33]:

And and in it, Robert Plant talks about writing lyrics.

Tony Nneke [00:15:39]:

Mhmm.

Tim Hughes [00:15:40]:

And he talks about the vulnerability of writing lyrics because quite often you're talking about the things around you.

Tony Nneke [00:15:46]:

Yes.

Tim Hughes [00:15:47]:

And and when he was talking about that, I thought about you.

Tony Nneke [00:15:51]:

Oh, wow. Wow.

Tim Hughes [00:15:52]:

And I thought about and I remember the first time that you shared one of your, lyrics Mhmm. One of your poems. And you said you did a video about this is where I write my poetry. It's a safe place.

Tony Nneke [00:16:06]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Hughes [00:16:07]:

Yeah. And and it and and I remember it because I remember it being it's it was a bit like you stepping off a roof and and, and and, you know, expecting everyone to to reject you and say, these are terrible, Tony. This is rubbish. You know? Get back to being a salesperson. And it Yeah. Yeah. And it didn't happen. Everyone said, this

Tony Nneke [00:16:29]:

is amazing.

Tim Hughes [00:16:29]:

Yeah. And and and that that vulnerability. And I and I thought about you, and there I was sitting in the IMAX Of Waterloo thinking about you. And and and and and and I just remember that, and I just remember the difference that that, you know, one minute you're Tony the salesperson, and now you're Tony with vulnerabilities. And, actually, the Tony with vulnerabilities is more attractive.

Tony Nneke [00:16:52]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I I you've you've got to yeah. I mean, I I say this now. I feel I feel it it's always good to see yourself in somebody. And and so so how I just feel like how do you connect? So if if you can talk through things that other people have experienced maybe from different perspectives, then they're more likely to to resonate, have a different point of view, but still in the same subject.

Tony Nneke [00:17:16]:

Otherwise, it's just a shield, a value you you you sort of putting up. Right? So I yeah. It was definitely, a breakthrough moment for me in that regards to to to to, as I said, to be more comfortable in in in who I am and sharing it and and breaking my own stereotypes that I've, believed.

Bertrand Godillot [00:17:34]:

And, Tony,

Adam Gray [00:17:36]:

I I was just gonna say, and and and does it, does it feel like more fun, you know, going to work and checking in now? Does it feel like more fun seeing as you're kind of bringing your whole self to the party?

Tony Nneke [00:17:49]:

Yeah. I I think yeah. I just yeah. I think people I feel like people know me more or or feel like they can make a connection more. Because my thing's always been, as I said, we've all we've all got different, stereotypes we keep in my head. So I I've always had this thing for whatever reason of of, not being seen as approachable. And and what you know, we we can delve into why this, but I've always sort of had this thing. And as in my head, I think it's come from a a time when I was sort of into music.

Tony Nneke [00:18:24]:

But even when I got to music, I was I used to write about, like, the experiences of, like, struggle and, feeling frustrated and and and disengaged with the world. My music was sort of on those type of topics. And so then I used to in my head, anyway, it counts as, like, serious. Life is serious, and and I've got to show people that I'm tough. And and and so I've always had this so I feel like when I'm now able to sort of share the poetry and and, some sort of daily thoughts in my head. In my mind, I'm not, oh, they're saying, oh, Tony's alright. He's he's not not this moody, serious person who's like, be careful what you say because he'll take it the wrong way or or personal. I'm not saying that that I I experienced that, but that's in my head.

Tony Nneke [00:19:04]:

So it helps me to kind of unravel that as well. So, so, yeah, I I I feel like that guard is is is dropped, for sure.

Bertrand Godillot [00:19:13]:

Tony, you just said a few minutes ago, and I and I and I've written this die down, by the way. So you said, you know, it depends what type of relationships you want to create. Yes. And what I'd like to, to, to ask is, have you seen any changes in the way in the relationships that you build with your customers? Do you have evidences of that?

Tony Nneke [00:19:38]:

I mean, for for me, I I

Bertrand Godillot [00:19:41]:

I mean, prospects as well. Yeah.

Tony Nneke [00:19:43]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I tell more of me when in in in in stories. So what I mean is those that I've I'm building rapport with will know about my music and my poetry. You could argue whether that's a good fit or not, but, like, they don't just think, oh, that's Tony who who who who's sells MuleSoft then. And, you know, that's Tony waiting to to to see what he can sell.

Tony Nneke [00:20:14]:

They they we can talk about, you know, real stuff, as well, if if if they're comfortable to an audience. But but that's that's kind of the approach I I I have. So, and I'm more comfortable doing that now. And I and I feel with that. You you learn about people and you connect. Right? And I think it should be two way. Yes. I know there's a, you know, there's a a process about what you're trying to sell, etcetera.

Tony Nneke [00:20:37]:

But outside of that, you're talking to a person, and I've and I've you you want them to well, I hope anyway that they enjoy our conversations apart from sometimes you might have difficult conversations, obviously, about programs. But generally speaking, you wanna look forward to speaking to somebody because you're giving up your time. So so, I try to bring more of me to that just to make sure at least they have that as well as any value that I'm bringing to them. That's for them to decide. But, yeah, that's that's so, yeah, so I definitely see more of that conversation I can tell you about, what they're into and things like that. And you'd argue that's normal, but for me, that's definitely something that I can do more.

Adam Gray [00:21:14]:

Well, I I I don't think that is normal, though. Because I I think that most people, they they hide behind the brand and what they do rather than who they are. And and, you know, we we we have a number of, individuals that we know that are so so so, one one gentleman, he he's out in the Far East, and he said that when he meets a prospect for the first time, he said it's kind of a bit creepy sometimes because they know, like, everything about me. And and and do you find that that the fact that you share not private stuff, but you share personal stuff, does does that accelerate the path of getting to know a prospect? Because, you know, so often we, you know, everybody knows about the, you know, know, like, trust journey that that a prospect goes on. And it's only when they trust you and they like you that they're ever actually gonna do business with you. Yes. And does this accelerate that so you get to that point sooner?

Tony Nneke [00:22:14]:

It helps for sure. It it it, yeah, it it it does help. I think but but I think the more the more, open you you are or or or personal and and and they are to as I said, it's two way, then I think the more open and honest conversation you can have. And that's what you really want to do. Right? Because, ultimately, you know, I'm there to try and help my prospects and customers. So the the more I understand what their pain points are and their challenges, as well as, obviously, who they are as a person, then the more I'm gonna learn. And then, therefore, the more I'm able to help them. And and vice versa, I think there's there's a trust.

Tony Nneke [00:22:51]:

So I I I'm seeing that. And and it's interesting because I I had, a recent call, a personal call, but I, I think it was to do my phone. Yeah. But it was my phone. And, I just remember come up I listened to them, and I was trying to be a good customer myself. And then I come to the phone thinking I they they was they were just selling to me. You know? They there was no there was nothing personal whatsoever. I mean, they'd leave the leave that call probably feeling they they were professional.

Tony Nneke [00:23:20]:

Probably the call was recorded, and that they'll be graded on asking the right stuff and about, you know, due for upgrades, but there was nothing about me at all. I don't I don't mean not even small talk, just very much actionable business. And I thought, Jesus, that is terrible. You know, and that's and then I look back about, was I ever like that? So for me now, I'm I'm that it's always on my mind. It's just, you're speaking to a person and and be open and honest, and it does help. You you do build your

Tim Hughes [00:23:50]:

But but but if that if that's recorded, it's it's probably beaten out of them, isn't it?

Tony Nneke [00:23:54]:

Well, it's okay.

Tim Hughes [00:23:55]:

It's it's because being personal is is actually a waste of time, isn't it? Because what we need to be doing is spending our time pitching.

Tony Nneke [00:24:02]:

Yeah.

Tim Hughes [00:24:02]:

And I'm being and and I'm being sarcastic.

Tony Nneke [00:24:05]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know I know I know you. It it drives the wrong behaviors. Absolutely. It it it does.

Tony Nneke [00:24:11]:

And and and, again, like, you know, it's no coincidence as as, you know, as I'm, let's say, more mature in life, that I'm more comfortable sort of being myself. Because when when I was younger, I had to I had this perception of how you needed to be. And, again, this is my own perception. Some people might say, oh, I was personal then, perhaps, but I I didn't think I was, and I didn't feel like I should be per se. And it was always, in my mind, if it comes stepping out of the the comfort zone, because now we're moving towards I'm making this my comfort zone and getting used to being uncomfortable, but it's it's just you're talking to a human being. So I I always put that in the forefront of my mind as a human person who wants to do well in their job. So if there's a challenge, they want to fix that for their own job and their own organization, and you're there to help. So, you know, let's let's meet in the middle of the ground and have that conversation in in a in a humane way, if that makes sense.

Bertrand Godillot [00:25:08]:

Interesting again. So you talked about, you know, your, I mean, your your when you were basically starting in that business. Did you did you have any mentors or any any, you know, people who who have really, you know, impressed you or or or basically, you know, serve as as example, so as role models, you could say, or or or even people who have acted as mentors.

Tony Nneke [00:25:36]:

Yeah. I'm I'm glad you you you asked that because, I I may have not met mentioned that, so I'm glad you've given the opportunity to to do that. I've had many people help me for sure. Like, when you talk about the the the the unexpected, part of success and mine was, and it's it's all because people saw something in me that I I just didn't see in myself. And I know that sounds cliche, but, I think I've always been tenacious. And, I I've had people tell me that's a good thing, and then they've they've championed me. So I always say to people and you ask I think this was asked earlier about, you know, summer sun and a journey. Seek out champions.

Tony Nneke [00:26:15]:

I know that's that's very difficult to do, but I've had many champions sort of give me advice on presentations, give me advice on, what's the product knowledge. And and also the best advice was be yourself, you know, your lack of a character, believe in yourself and and etcetera. And and, you know, sort of knowing what I needed to hear at the time. So sometimes it's not about the skill set of production. It's about maybe symposia syndrome. So they're they're encouraging you there. Others, it might be okay. We need to refine him here.

Tony Nneke [00:26:48]:

You know? So I've always had people shape me with their best interests at heart. Not not not not bashing me. Not, you know, the other way around. So boosting my confidence better for the team. So, yes, I've I've had many. I, too many people to sort of faint. But in my unexpected journey, I've had, unofficial mentors, people who've, taken me under their wing. And and and sometimes the the the best gems I've had is just unexpected conversations in the cold war.

Tony Nneke [00:27:14]:

You know? So as I said, my my perception of the corporate, world was was blown in a in a positive way because I've had many people in in the corporate world help me, and and encourage and champion me. So, yeah, absolutely. Had had mentors. I know and couldn't be here without that. Even those who've had me in roles, you know, seeing something, yeah, and championing the way I do approaches if if it sometimes has that's been a bit different. No. He's he's he's on to something, and we'll work with him. So, yeah, absolutely.

Tony Nneke [00:27:43]:

You've had it. You need I think you need it. And no man is an island, and it's it's it's it's it's true to that. You know?

Adam Gray [00:27:52]:

Yeah. So so, you obviously, you've you you are leading with who you are. And, I mean, I love your your LinkedIn headline. A very interesting chap, a rather interesting chap, which I think is just beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. But that kind of route to market, you know, not being a gray suit wearing corporate clone, is at odds with a lot of large organizations. So, you know, you're you're at big company now, and prior to that, you were at big company, and prior to that, you were at big company. So you you know the kind of the the large enterprise space very well in terms of working within that environment.

Adam Gray [00:28:43]:

And how is is this kind of attitude being received, and how has that changed over the ten years that you've been working in multibillion dollar companies? I mean, is it more accepted now, or is it still a challenge?

Tony Nneke [00:28:59]:

Great question. I think well, I think it's more accepted now. I think you've you've only got to go on LinkedIn as an example and seen as as many sort of videos, out there, from motivational talks to to snippets, different, approaches of of how someone's articulating an event, case studies. So so I think I think there's definitely more advocacy for ways to reach people, engage people for sure. And I and I and, again, I think even in workplace culture, there's a lot more emphasis over the last ten years around, you know, workplace culture being kind of the the epicenter for positive productivity if you get it right. And therefore, based on people's, culture would then be kind of diversity in their their thoughts and their approaches. So I I do see positive change in that in that space. I think what's interesting is the social selling is encouraged, but it's obviously still in my opinion, individual layer, if that makes sense.

Tony Nneke [00:30:10]:

So it's not because not everyone's comfortable speaking, sharing their thoughts on online, on on video, or even just doing a a sort of a a personal post, so to speak. Right? And for for different reasons. There's some as I said, don't see maybe that is professional or something. Oh, maybe they don't think they're interested enough. I I don't know. So I think you'll see that increase over the next sort of two to three years, I believe, the the more there's positive reaction for, let's say, the so called prospect. Because I because when I look from the customer base, they share a lot of their, stories. You know? They'll share what they've done on the weekend.

Tony Nneke [00:30:54]:

They'll talk about they're at this event. They do it a lot. So and the sellers, I think, are kind of catching up. But that's what I see. I I I see people who I follow on LinkedIn, and they are sharing a lot of what what you deem as personal stuff. So I do think it's catching up because I because I think people wanna connect. And I think that the well, the lockdown scenario, COVID over the last sort of four years accelerated that, I think, for people. The idea of connecting and being more personable, showing up as who you are, sort of life's too short, going for you've got going for going for what you want and leading on who you are.

Tony Nneke [00:31:31]:

I think more people are attuned to that more than ever now. So they're definitely a cautious. I hope that answers your question. I kind of feel like I went on a tangent there, but certainly No.

Adam Gray [00:31:40]:

No. Not at all. But but I think that, you know, one of the things that we, say, you know, we have to sell stuff as well. So so one of the things that we sometimes get as a pushback is that, you know, my customers aren't on social,

Tony Nneke [00:31:55]:

which

Adam Gray [00:31:56]:

clearly isn't the case because everyone's on social. But perhaps more, more concerning is that people say or on occasion, people say, yeah. I don't engage with any personal content. I don't like to see personal content on a business network. I only engage with business content. And, I mean, ironically, that seems not to be the case because even the people that say that, you know, they're the ones that drop a like on a happy birthday or congratulations for your promotion or whatever.

Tony Nneke [00:32:30]:

Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:32:31]:

But but is is that something that you're kind of struggling with? Either internally or externally, you know, when when you're engaging with people that that they find this a turn off rather than a turn on?

Tony Nneke [00:32:46]:

If if they've so I'm I'm gonna say no in in in the in the first instance. I mean, if they if they are, that's not sort of being made clear to me. So, you know, it's obviously if they turn off, they they made you know, you'd you'd argue if you sort of do, like, a a connect request and it's still pending and it's still pending, then maybe that's their way of saying, you know, if they both fight, that's the turn off. But in terms of, engagement, no. I I said that. So I think people want to know people. So, you you know, it's like, whatever normally goes by. I'm sure you go on LinkedIn's you view someone's profile.

Tony Nneke [00:33:19]:

So you yeah. You wanna know about where they worked. But you wanna see if you know a little bit about them, as as a person automatically. So that's why I think the more you show yourself, then they get a sense of, I wanna say, familiarity, but just oh, they can decide if they want to engage, if they like that person. This was really generally what they do. Oh, he seems he or she seems likable. And then they're they're open to kind of have a have a conversation. So, you know, don't what I say to to the statement around, I don't really respond to sort of personal content.

Tony Nneke [00:33:56]:

I mean, that that's that's their choice. Right? But I know when I've been in meetings, which, and it's throughout my career, right, where it's, you know, it's serious conversation, and it's about challenges, and then they know and that stuff. I'm gonna say 95% of the time, you have a personal conversation there too. You know? That's face to face, and you're still saying you have a whether it's football, golf, whatever it is, there's personal commentary in these really, really important mission critical meetings. So it to me, it's a natural sense to then be familiar with that kind of on online. Right? As long as you're not revealing anything sort of that's from a business perspective. So that's what I say to that as well. If you're gonna be like that online, I can understand to an extent, but then you should be like that in your face to face meetings.

Tony Nneke [00:34:50]:

And generally speaking, we're not so it's it's so that's my point to that is to actually be authentic to to where you are online as well as you are in person because it's the same thing. It's the it's the icebreaker, then it's actually about making people feel relaxed and actually are warm, friendly, and then haven't having the serious bits that you need to discuss. Mhmm.

Adam Gray [00:35:09]:

Yeah. I mean, it it's, it

Tim Hughes [00:35:12]:

it the

Adam Gray [00:35:13]:

the nice thing about it is that it's so kind of natural. So Yeah. So have a have a this. Right? You're you're in your sales role. You're talking to all of these different organizations and public sector in your case, and, you know, you're you're you're developing, conversations to solve their their issues. And at the same time, you're putting some of your self out there. You're sharing your poetry. You're sharing your music.

Adam Gray [00:35:37]:

What happens when a music producer comes to you and says, quit quit this job, mate. Come and come and be on our our label.

Tony Nneke [00:35:46]:

Yeah. I'll say how much now? Nah. I'll say it's it's it's I mean Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:35:54]:

Because that's the dream. Right? That's the

Tony Nneke [00:35:56]:

The the political answer would be I'll cross that bridge when it comes to no. But, you know, honestly, it's it's it's it's a passion of mine, and and and, like, it's a hobby. So for me, the the the poetry is is where I think I'm most expressive, you know, and I generally do love what I do. Like, I I love connecting with people. And that's that's the best part for me in in in the work that I do is connecting with people, understanding challenges, having more conversations, and being able to bring a bit of, you know, me to it. And and there's always a time and place for, like, I'm not gonna start the conversation quoting Shakespeare and stuff like that. Who's this guy? You it's a you know, you but it's, again, it's about creating a movement and having those conversations. But I will talk about poetry as I'm gonna need to and and point to people.

Tony Nneke [00:36:44]:

Look. If you like poetry, you know, go on my LinkedIn and what have you and have a have a view. And and I think it to me, that it's one. It's not it's not either or now. It's it's that's how I look at it. It's like, this is what I do, and this is where I choose to spend my time, and it's been me. So that they're they're, you know, the the record labels and all that sort of stuff. If that happens in terms of forming an old one, that would be something that I would that would do with what I'm doing now, so to speak.

Tony Nneke [00:37:10]:

I think for me, I I'm really happy where I am, and I think it's because of the added bonus that I'm being myself. Like, I'm not hiding, I'd I'd you know? I'm preaching some poetry, but it's it's a weekend thing, and nobody knows. And no. It's it's it's I'm supposed to choose if I need to. You know?

Tim Hughes [00:37:26]:

So I'm gonna save you, Tony, from, from that question. Gonna go back to what you were talking about before, about the fact that we've got if someone says, I'm gonna be myself. Yeah. In an analog face to face world. But when it comes to digital, I'm gonna be something else.

Tony Nneke [00:37:44]:

Yeah.

Tim Hughes [00:37:45]:

Isn't there a certain amount of hypocrisy there?

Tony Nneke [00:37:50]:

I mean, you you could view it that way, but I understand. It's for well, I I speak from a personal point of view. It's fear of being judged, because if it's in person, you still feel like you're in control of it because it's one on one or or or or one to customer depending on how many are present. So it's in that space. So even if Westchester now, you you share something about yourself and it it didn't land and people didn't appreciate it. Yes. You feel whole, but you feel, oh, that meeting didn't go well, but it's it sort of stays there. But once you share something personal online, you could have people who you don't know, you know, potentially do a negative comment.

Tony Nneke [00:38:27]:

You've got more eyes on you maybe frowning upon it. So, again, if a meeting goes not too well, unless it was terrible, it would spread that wildfire internally. But, otherwise, it's sort of kept within the confinements. Maybe your manager will speak to you and work from where you can improve on. So you you it's safer in that regards to to why people might do that. But online, it's, you know, it's it's almost open season to an extent. At least that's what the field would make me feel like. I can see why people would would be more, reserved in in that regards and and and that that to me, anyway, it's fear of judgment and the the amount of lies on it.

Tony Nneke [00:39:02]:

So you you start small. Maybe, you know, you you you go in a safe place, and and, you know, base the sentiment that that receives, and then you maybe do it again. And you feel like, oh, there's maybe a consistent, amount of people who's maybe like what I'm doing. I'll I'll do more. But the first step's always the hardest. So you gotta find something that you're comfortable revealing, and then, you know, the more you do it, then you you'll you'll reveal more if if if you need to.

Adam Gray [00:39:28]:

Thank you. So you you said, that you've had loads of loads of mentors

Tony Nneke [00:39:35]:

Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:39:36]:

Over the years that have helped you develop yourself and understand the value that you bring to the audience and how you are a special individual. Now, obviously, you are a black guy in a largely white corporate environment. And you're a fantastic role model for young ethnic minority or non white people or non like Tim and me, but cookie cutters of one another. And we represent the vast majority of people out there, which means that that the workplace and the environment in which we operate in is greatly duller than it needs to be. You know? And, people who are not like me are a breath of fresh air for me. You know? The fact they bring a different perspective, a different experiences, different, passions and interests, you know, rap music and poetry. I'm incredibly impressed, but it's not something that I've ever done or really had a great deal of interest in. So so do you mentor young people? Because, you know, you're an inspirational individual, and people must look at you and go, I wanna be like him one day.

Adam Gray [00:40:49]:

So do do you mentor people? And if not, when are you going to? Because you need to, don't you?

Tim Hughes [00:40:54]:

I wanna be like Tony one day.

Adam Gray [00:40:56]:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I wanna grow up to be like Tony. Yeah. I do.

Tony Nneke [00:41:01]:

I'm I'm meant to I've I've let's say I I wouldn't say in a in a in a unofficial capacity, I I do, if that makes sense. So in terms of, if I'll they've got my number on my phone, and then and then if we need to speak and they're gonna speak to me, they'll drop me a text, and we have a conversation. And I'm and I'm and I'm there to to offer advice and if, hopefully, it resonates. So I so I I I have done that, should I say. But in terms of lacking an official capacity where I'm meeting people, what's a a week or a month, no. It's more ad hoc. So, you know, I I I I try to give my time to to those who might approach me and say, you know, can I can I can can I have a conversation, then then then I will? So if you wanna call that mentoring, I've I've I've done that or or or do that, should I say. Yeah.

Tony Nneke [00:41:55]:

I I I think I think it's important to to reach out to people. And and also just just on a on a point, I think it's weird because I don't I don't like to sort of view myself as a as a as a a role model, so to speak. But if I am, I I would say to it would be to any, I just see myself as a role model full stop. We've got, you know, black, white, pink, brown, person. They can they can they can learn from me in some aspects as well, whether it's characteristics or music, corporation, what whatever that might be. So that's how I try to view myself anyway.

Bertrand Godillot [00:42:35]:

Brilliant. Yeah. Excellent. Every now and again, Tony, you know, we you know, sometimes we just, we're just stuck into our career path. Yeah. We've we've got to, you know, we've got to we've got to the end of that. So but then at the same time, it's not that easy to change. Yeah.

Bertrand Godillot [00:43:00]:

Well, it takes some, some effort or at least some, some thinking to and and and also action. So do you have advices of people who would be who would feel stuck in in in their career path?

Tony Nneke [00:43:22]:

First question, I'd so I've I've I've been there where I've been stuck. And so Mhmm. First thing is to have a honest conversation with yourself and say, why do you feel stuck? What what is it? Is it the job? Is it, obviously, you think you should be further along in the job? Is it the pay? Is it is it the environment? Is it a specific person? Or is it action on the above and you're just not doing what you wanted to do? So I think that that would be my the my advice to somebody there, like, why? Try and identify, and then then it might be what's because once you've recognized that and you realize, oh, so for example, okay. I'm doing sales in IT, but, actually, I I I wanna be be a tennis player. Yeah, different worlds, but then once I've understood that, then I can maybe navigate and find out, k. Well, who does disputes about coaching or getting into that? What money do I need to to to sustain the lifestyle if there's a a natural drop? You just need to identify what days. And I I when I was younger and felt stuck, the mindset I had was just quit. But quit's in where? This is so so I I I'm I'm I'm leaving stuck to be stuck.

Tony Nneke [00:44:33]:

So so you just kinda need to understand what it is. So once you answer the why, I Mhmm.

Bertrand Godillot [00:44:38]:

I would

Tony Nneke [00:44:39]:

say change is sort of easy. Now there's barriers we put in our minds like, oh, well, now now I can't leave and and but you you technically can. You just have to plan it well. So, you know, you go look for somewhere else. You you speak to different, guys to get mentorship to say, well, actually, is it within a business? Is it is it a new job? So you need to understand why first. And if it's actually all you, you could change some of that.

Bertrand Godillot [00:45:02]:

You know, you could

Tony Nneke [00:45:02]:

change maybe how you navigate with somebody you don't get along with. You have more of a honest conversation with, with, your manager, get a mentor, and then people can start to guide you now how to work. So you need to understand why you're stuck. I think many people feel stuck kind of

Bertrand Godillot [00:45:16]:

And they quit.

Tony Nneke [00:45:17]:

Yeah. They quit or they let it become them. They they don't do anything about it as such really. They just kinda continue to to to moan, which I've done in the past

Adam Gray [00:45:24]:

as well.

Bertrand Godillot [00:45:25]:

And from that perspective, what part what part, continuous learning is kind of aura? Yeah, is kind of, one of the dimensions of of that.

Tony Nneke [00:45:37]:

The the continuous learning, I said to someone the other day, you gotta have your own sort of model code. Right? So, like, when when you anything you're doing, you you need to sort of know why you're doing it, what you wanna get for it. So the the moment you're not getting that, there's your signal that, oh, so in in my case, if I'm not able to sort of, you know, have meaningful conversations, either with customers, prospects, colleagues, and and the environment doesn't permit that self and you're really not enjoying it, then that's the sad thing. Well, I'm I'm not maybe getting the things I need or or or even this stuff that I'm doing is found upon and, you know, all of that but that then that will that that's if I don't do anything about that, I'll start to feel stuck, so to speak. So I think you need to have an idea of what you expect in a in a role, your your own your own goals, so to speak. And if they're being met, then you're generally happy. So for example, if all money is offered or all this is offered, you're you're going to stay put. You're happy.

Tony Nneke [00:46:38]:

You you know? Again, many sort of don't have that is or or they have maybe one layer to which is, like, salary. Yeah. But there's gotta be more to it, I think. So I think once you have that, you can check-in every six months or every period to say, are you getting what you need? Will it? That that's that's what I developed and and learned all the time.

Adam Gray [00:46:59]:

Yeah. I mean, it it's it's interesting stuff, isn't it? Because I think so often, we don't invest time in thinking about what our direction is in career or life. You know? We we get into a kind of rhythm, and we end up just kind of coasting.

Tony Nneke [00:47:16]:

Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:47:16]:

And I've had that a number of times in my career where, and and it has sometimes been the money. It has sometimes been the people. It has sometimes been, a lack of fulfillment in the actual job itself. You know? Because I think one of one of the challenges that that we have, and less so with what we do and what you do, where it's very much people centric. Right.

Tony Nneke [00:47:41]:

A lot

Adam Gray [00:47:41]:

of times, you know, you can be in a you can be in a, an environment where what you do is quite sort of formulaic. So many years ago, I worked in a a designer marketing agency, and we had one particularly big client in the the photo video space. And every Easter, they did one of these campaigns. And every summer, they did one of these campaigns. And every Christmas, they did one of these campaigns. And we were responsible working with the same people, with the same brief, within the same campaign, at the same time every year doing the same things. And it was like, even though it was not and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with working in a factory, but even though it was it was very much like working in a factory, you know, where you're stamping this and moving it along and stamping this and moving it all. And, you know, you do got two, three, four iterations of that and just go, jeez.

Adam Gray [00:48:35]:

There must be more to life than this.

Tony Nneke [00:48:36]:

Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:48:37]:

Yeah. But but I think often, it takes it takes, like, a major event to, to stimulate a move, doesn't it?

Tony Nneke [00:48:47]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:48:48]:

You know? So either, you know, you get made redundant or you lose a client or you end up in a bus stop with somebody in the office or whatever those things are. You have that kind of moment. Mhmm. So so so how do you keep it fresh? Because, you know, you haven't changed role. Well, you've changed role, but you haven't changed company. But you seem more fulfilled and happy now than you were when I first met you a year or eighteen months ago or whatever. So so, so how do you keep it fresh?

Tony Nneke [00:49:24]:

Goals that I set for myself, just allows me to stay accountable. Whether I've whether I've I've achieved them or not, this allows me to to embrace the challenge. So I'm I know that sounds, again, a bit of a an airy fairy answer, but that that's generally how it is. So for example, I've I've changed roles. So, again, set new challenges and goals for myself. The previous role, again, set set challenges, new campaigns, learn to deviate. So I think for me, I'm I'm always set in challenges. The difference is this time, the concept of sort of failure is is different now.

Tony Nneke [00:50:05]:

So for me, it's it's I say winning and learning. So at which is then it makes me more excited for the challenge. So, obviously, you want the outcome you want, but if you don't get the outcome you want, what did you learn? Cool. I can take what I've learned and make sure the next challenge are ready. You know? It's like, give me another give me another chance now. I know I feel I've got him now or I I I do it like that. I was and and to to simplify for me, Kevin, is boxing. So I love boxing.

Tony Nneke [00:50:37]:

So round one, I'm sparring with a guy. He's got a ram jab. So I could he's he's got so he's he's helped me with a jab. So round two, I I say, okay. I need to slip his jab. It's just very simple, but it's like I'm not going to or my ego could be like, oh, I'm gonna take a jab. No. So so I so I use what I've learned to carry on, though, not to, give in or, like, he's too tough.

Tony Nneke [00:50:59]:

So I'm no. It's like, okay. Devate. Navigate. Find another way. So and and that's kind of how I work with it. So I look at a challenge and just tackle it. Great if I've nailed it.

Tony Nneke [00:51:10]:

And if I haven't, it's not oh, it's it's okay. We learn how can you incorporate it moving forward. And and that's helped me to be able to be more adaptable, let's say, than I was, years ago.

Bertrand Godillot [00:51:24]:

Yeah. Well, Tony, this this has been really great. And and and after spending a little bit of time with you, I confirm that you are a rather interesting chap.

Tim Hughes [00:51:38]:

This has been an accident, Tony. Yeah.

Tony Nneke [00:51:40]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Bertrand Godillot [00:51:41]:

Where where where can where where can we learn more? Where where can people find you?

Tony Nneke [00:51:46]:

On LinkedIn. Yeah. Tony on on LinkedIn. And and and, you know, I I I, yeah, I'd share a bit about me. Some I get poetry. You'll see some poems. I'll I'll I'll do little sort of mindful thoughts. And, obviously, we'll share some stuff that's happening in Salesforce because there's some good stuff there as well.

Tony Nneke [00:52:04]:

So a mixture. But, yeah, certainly learn about me there. And just reach out to me. Direct message if you've got any questions. I'm always happy to talk. I like talking to people because I learn from them, and then I can use it to what I can do in my life. That's like, this conversation, I've learned a lot. You've asked me questions, and I'm hearing, oh, my own answers.

Tony Nneke [00:52:24]:

I like I like to listen and learn. So, yeah, please reach out to me.

Bertrand Godillot [00:52:28]:

I'm sure you're gonna have a lot of new friends after that. Alright. Thank you. We now have a newsletter. Don't miss an episode. Get, the show highlights, beyond the show insights, and reminders of upcoming episodes. You can scan the QR code on screen or visit us at digitaldownload.live/newsletter. On behalf of the panelists, to our guests, and to our audience, thank you all, and see you next time.

Tim Hughes [00:53:07]:

Bye, everybody. Thank you, Tony.

Tony Nneke [00:53:08]:

Thanks. Bye.

Bertrand Godillot [00:53:09]:

Thanks, Tony. Thank you, Tony. Bye.

Tony Nneke [00:53:10]:

Bye.

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