Crafting Credibility in the Digital Age with special guest Mitchell Levy

This week on The Digital Download, join us as we dive deep into the underexplored realm of credibility with our special guest, Mitchell Levy. A Global Credibility Expert, Mitchell recently delivered a TEDx entitled, “We are Losing Our Humanity and I’m Tired of Watching it Happen”. In it, Mitchell challenges the conventional wisdom that defines business success and instead maps out a profound shift towards practices grounded in credibility.

In our conversation, we'll ask:

* What’s the problem with the conventional wisdom that defines business success?

* What’s the link between credibility and sustainable business growth?

* How has the digital age altered the way credibility is built and perceived?

* What are some strategies for professionals to enhance credibility in their digital footprint?

* How can leaders cultivate a culture of credibility within their organizations?

Having recently interviewed 500 leaders, Mitchell brings unparalleled insights into how credibility can be the ultimate differentiator in today's competitive landscape. Whether you're aiming to enhance your personal brand or elevate your business, Mitchell will provide you with the knowledge to leverage credibility as a key growth strategy.

We strive to make The Digital Download an interactive experience. Bring your questions. Bring your insights. Audience participation is highly encouraged!

This week we were joined by our Special Guest -

• Mitchell Levy, TEDx speaker, an international bestselling author, and Global Credibility Expert

This week's Host was -

• Rob Durant, Founder of Flywheel Results, a proud DLA Ignite partner

Panelists included -

• Tim Hughes, CEO & Co-founder of DLA Ignite

• Adam Gray, Co-founder of a DLA Ignite, and

• Alex Abbott, Founder of Supero, a DLA Ignite partner

Transcript of The Digital Download 2024-02-16

Rob Durant [00:00:00]:

Morning, good afternoon, and good day wherever you may be joining us from. Welcome to another edition of the Digital Download,

Adam Gray [00:00:08]:

which is

Rob Durant [00:00:09]:

The longest running weekly business talk show on LinkedIn Live. Now globally syndicated on the IPGN Tracy Network. Yeah. Today, we're crafting credibility in the digital age. We have a special guest, Mitchell Live, to help us with the discussion. A global credibility expert, Mitchell recently delivered a TEDx entitled, "We are losing our humanity, and I'm tired of watching it happen." Having recently interviewed over 500 leaders, Mitchell brings unparalleled insights into how credibility can be the ultimate differentiator in today's competitive landscape. But before we bring Mitchell on, let's go around and introduce everyone.

Rob Durant [00:01:04]:

While we're doing that, why don't you in the audience reach out to a friend? Ping them. Have them join us. We strive to make the digital download an interactive experience. Participation is highly encouraged. Alright. Alex, would you join us? Introduce yourself, please.

Alex Abbott [00:01:27]:

I will join you and introduce myself.

Rob Durant [00:01:30]:

Thank you.

Alex Abbott [00:01:31]:

So my name's Alex Abbott, occasionally known as the bearded sales guy depending on which digital corridors I'm walking. So I'm the founder of Sapiro, and, I'm particularly interested in this topic today because, I I don't know if our guest Mitchell is in the green room and he can hear us yet, Abbott, I I wonder if he's heard of doctor Julian Birkinshaw and the work that he's done around the, you know, competitive advantage and the importance of, you know, human beings being human and, and, and leveraging their personality on on on digital. I'm also a proud DLA Ignite partner.

Rob Durant [00:02:16]:

Excellent. Welcome. Thank you. Adam, good morning. Good afternoon.

Tim Hughes [00:02:25]:

Good evening. You're on mute, Adam.

Adam Gray [00:02:27]:

Schoolboy error. Schoolboy error. Yes. Hello, everybody. It's good afternoon for for us in England. I'm Adam Gray, cofounder of DLA Ignite. And this is a fascinating subject, so I'm really looking forward to delving into this today.

Rob Durant [00:02:43]:

Absolutely. And, Andrew's checking in. Andrew Slessor says good morning, good afternoon. We are Andrew. Thank you, Adam. Tim.

Tim Hughes [00:02:56]:

William, everybody. Yes. My name is Tim Hughes. I'm the CEO and cofounder of DLA Knight, and I'm famous for writing the book, Social Selling Techniques to Influence Buyers and Changemakers. And I'm particularly interested in watching the and talking with our guest today. Having watched his TED Talk, I particularly like the research they did with influencers where, many of them didn't even turn up the call he had. So I thought that

Alex Abbott [00:03:27]:

They lost their credibility. Yeah.

Tim Hughes [00:03:29]:

So I'm I'm really interested in in in talking today.

Alex Abbott [00:03:32]:

Yeah.

Rob Durant [00:03:33]:

Excellent. Thank you. And I'm Rob Durant, founder of Flywheel Results, a proud DLA Ignite partner, and I'm not famous for writing anything. Yes. Yeah.

Rob Durant [00:03:47]:

Because I said

Alex Abbott [00:03:48]:

What are you working on, Rob?

Rob Durant [00:03:50]:

Yeah. I I am working on a book. I am working on, stop Pitching and Start Selling, the Social Enablement Blueprint. Yeah. Nice. Do fall of 2023. Yes. Yes.

Rob Durant [00:04:09]:

I know.

Alex Abbott [00:04:12]:

We've had some That's that's autumn for our UK listeners.

Rob Durant [00:04:16]:

Yes. Yes. That's back in time for everyone listening. Anyway, I digress. As I said, this week on the digital download, we'll speak with Mitchell Levy. Mitchell challenges the conventional wisdom that defines business success and instead maps out a profound shift towards practices grounded in credibility. Let's bring Tim on. Mitchell, good morning, and welcome.

Tim Hughes [00:04:47]:

Hi, Mitchell.

Mitchell Levy [00:04:49]:

It is great to be here. What a beautiful intro. I'm feeling, I'm feeling honored. Thanks for having me.

Tim Hughes [00:04:55]:

What what time is it with you, Mitchell?

Mitchell Levy [00:04:58]:

It is 6 AM. It is early for, normally, I'm only awake at this time if I stayed up, not

Alex Abbott [00:05:09]:

Nice.

Rob Durant [00:05:10]:

Mitchell, it's great having you here. Thank you so much, especially for this ungodly time. But, we wanted to start by having you tell us a little bit more about you and and how you got here.

Mitchell Levy [00:05:24]:

So I've been in thank you. Well, let's just start with the most important stuff. Happily married for 34 years. I have a son who's 25. I've been at Silicon Valley for 35 years. I've started 20 ish companies. I have sat on the board of a Nasdaq company for for 9 years. I've, some of the companies that I currently still run, I have 4 publishing companies.

Mitchell Levy [00:05:52]:

We've published 750 books. I have, created executive business programs for, 2 different Silicon Valley universities. 20 21, I was asked to join Marshall Goldsmith's 100 coaches organization, so I do executive coaching. And I think the the thing that is probably and that's all we'll just say that's all stuff. Okay? When I think about who I am, I think about I love my best to challenge the status quo, to create simplicity, and do it in a container of trust. And so everything that I do is focused around that. And, now some really cool programs that I that got initially birthed out of the credibility research I've done and then had a major upgrade, about 3 years later.

Rob Durant [00:06:49]:

Okay. Wow. Awesome. Thank you for that. Mitchell, I wanted to start with a foundational question. What's the problem with the conventional wisdom that defines business success?

Mitchell Levy [00:07:08]:

God, that's a really broad question. Do you could you would you mind could you narrow that a little bit or give me context? Tim mean, I love the

Tim Hughes [00:07:19]:

I love

Mitchell Levy [00:07:20]:

the question, and I could I could I could answer it, and I'm not sure if I'm answering the right questions, so try it again.

Rob Durant [00:07:28]:

Well, that's the beauty of this question. It is intended to be brought to

Mitchell Levy [00:07:31]:

let you

Rob Durant [00:07:32]:

go in whatever direction you want to go. That's a little inside baseball. But what I'm wondering about

Tim Hughes [00:07:38]:

probably take

Mitchell Levy [00:07:38]:

it, Abbott, you know

Rob Durant [00:07:39]:

Yeah. What I'm wondering about is, when you, like, in the title of your TEDx, we're losing your our Hughes, and I'm tired of watching it happen. So what is getting us there? Is it, business success in how we define it? Is it, that we're just chasing the wrong things? What is causing you this angst, I suppose, is is the crux of the issue.

Mitchell Levy [00:08:07]:

Yeah. There's I okay. You've narrowed it down. I have 2 different approaches. So I'll I'll get to at least 1 and maybe we'll get to another.

Rob Durant [00:08:15]:

We have time for all of it.

Mitchell Levy [00:08:18]:

In terms of us losing our humanity, you look around at a number of the world leaders, and and what you're seeing is getting things done despite being polite, being kind, being focused on on the Hughes, human dignity, is is losing. And so from a business perspective, what that really means is many people have been taught how to do things in a really difficult way. And a lot of Tim, it's some consultant or some coach who makes it more complicated so they could charge more money. And so what happens a lot of times, I'm all of us, I'm Durant some point in time has been has been approached by someone who's done work in the past by Tony Robbins, and they've created a multimillion dollar, event or and and they've created a funnel and then for 15,000 or 15,000 quid, they can actually get the funnel for them. Now it's quite possible that they started off with something that worked. That said, that's not necessarily gonna work for you in this time or for your audience. And so what happens is we are continually selling those people who are marketers, marketing cookie cutter approaches. So solutions that may generically work for some people, but don't really work for most.

Mitchell Levy [00:09:57]:

And so COVID allowed many marketers to actually be able to sell because everyone was looking for the next right answer. And even though the answer may sound good, it may not be the right answer for them. And so I think what happens is we've made life way too complex, and we forgot the fundamentals that we were taught when we were young when we were younger.

Rob Durant [00:10:25]:

I love how you say that, we're we're being sold the solution. And and so often, that's what we're looking for, isn't it? And and not the the Ross, but the result.

Mitchell Levy [00:10:41]:

Do do you guys see you have you guys seen, you know, if if you're not new,

Rob Durant [00:10:46]:

do you

Mitchell Levy [00:10:46]:

know the easy button? Have you guys seen

Tim Hughes [00:10:48]:

the easy

Mitchell Levy [00:10:48]:

button? The staples easy yeah. We for some odd reason, we we want this, but this doesn't and I got it actually makes sound too. But, but this doesn't exist. The simple button exists. The easy button does not.

Rob Durant [00:11:06]:

And yet so many people are willing to, buy it when we're being sold that easy button.

Tim Hughes [00:11:13]:

Alex, it's just about to get

Mitchell Levy [00:11:14]:

a bottom.

Rob Durant [00:11:15]:

Yeah. And when that one doesn't work, we blame the vendor, but buy the next one.

Mitchell Levy [00:11:25]:

Oh, so true. Very insightful.

Rob Durant [00:11:29]:

So that leads me to the next question then which is, well, what's the link between credibility and sustainable business growth?

Mitchell Levy [00:11:43]:

I I'm by the way, I thank you so much for watching the watching the TEDx, You know? It's called we're as you said, we're we're Hughes we're losing our humanity, and I'm tired of watching it happen. And and when you look at the definition in the dictionary today, the definition was put into place at a time where everyone didn't have a camera. Everyone didn't have a microphone. So the definition was put in place when credibility meant the quality in which you're trusted. And because we have the opportunity to really see people, get to know people, get to work with people, and we the concept of social proof, the ability that we get to see other people Durant that, We're now at the stage where the extension of the word, credibility. It's the quality in which you're trusted, known, and liked. And, you know, what's really interesting, the the fact that we do have the ability to almost touch any person on the planet, that means that your competition is available around the world at different price points, different delivery models. You know, almost everything has been democratized.

Mitchell Levy [00:12:58]:

Mhmm. So what's interesting is is when you're thinking about the word credibility, what you need to think about as a business, whether it's a business owner or a business of 10,000 employees is is who are you? Are you are you trusted? And trust has a number of components associated with it. As the customers or prospects are getting to know the company now if it's a company of 1, it's they're getting to know you. If it's a company of 10,000, it's getting to know the link is the the the weakest link in the organization. And the last piece is as they get to know you, do they like you? So I have to tell you what's interesting to me, If you saw 2 people, 2 different vendors, and once this go at the digital, and they both were trustworthy. They both delivered well. They both as you get to know them, you you you weren't disappointed with their politics. You you Live them both.

Mitchell Levy [00:14:04]:

Just one was a jerk and one was nice. To you as an individual making the decision that the person who's not nice is not credible. And so credibility really is that the the quality in which you're trusted, known, and Live. And when I was growing up, I don't know you guys, were you taught that? Because I wasn't.

Alex Abbott [00:14:27]:

Yeah. Well, I I, I have to say I watched your, TEDx. Thought it was great. I I, I've been following a guy called doctor Julian Birkinshaw. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He did some research. Yeah.

Mitchell Levy [00:14:43]:

Oh, no. I was gonna Gray, I am actually getting a PhD. I'm done with the coursework and about to start the dissertation, and it is on clarity, and I looked him up. So I hadn't heard, Thank you for saying it in the preamble. I looked him up, and I will make sure he gets quoted in my, in the dissertation, and I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of stuff to learn. But I had no. I've not met met or heard him prior to, to you saying something.

Alex Abbott [00:15:11]:

Yeah. So he did a he did a presentation, which is on YouTube, back in 2014, and he was talking about the fact that we are we are exiting the knowledge Gray, and we're entering the post knowledge era. And, you know, when you think about AI and how generative AI has helped to make knowledge and insight become a commodity, really. You know, this idea of using insight and and your knowledge as a competitive differentiator to open new doors with your target audience is is no longer working because everyone's doing it. And so to your point, Mitchell, I think, businesses have a great opportunity to empower their people to develop their personal brands and and create content that makes them stand out and look different. Ultimately, creating a competitive advantage for the company that they they work at because people are unique. Not every not any 1 person is the same.

Mitchell Levy [00:16:19]:

Alex, I absolutely love that. You gave me at least 2 or 3 things to jump off of. First of all, I agree with you. What I often say is that thought leadership is now ubiquitous. Just like, you know, Rob, you know, doing a book, we've published 750. I've written 65. Book publishing is ubiquitous, Anyone who wants to really can. Right? And and on thought leadership, anyone who could write and craft the appropriate Ross can appear, double quotes, can appear to be a a thought leader and and be able to have the information they need.

Mitchell Levy [00:17:02]:

Take it like you mentioned and think about it from a company perspective, command and control does not deliver the type of solution you need because you you don't need in today's world a number of people who are just following orders. Because if they're just following orders, they're not engaged in the organization. They're not enjoying what they're doing. The the lie we were told, this is a lie we were told. You're born by the way, when you're born, you're so creative. When you're young and and and you're you're looking forward to life, and then you get put into school, most of your creativity is beaten out of you. And then you put into the work force and you're told, hey. You should work in a job your entire Live.

Mitchell Levy [00:17:45]:

And when you're done, you could retire and you'll have enough money to enjoy what you wanna do. Well, that worked maybe in the industrial age. That does not work now because if your employees are really empowered to be successful, you could really make 1 +1 equals 11. Your employees can make the sum of the parts so much greater than a whole, but it requires a completely new management structure and approach to how you're running a business.

Adam Gray [00:18:15]:

Mhmm. So you touched on, an incredibly simple concept, and and you highlighted it in a lovely way. You know? So you've got 2, the 2 potential vendors. They're both credible. They've both got insights. They've both got great CVs. They're both good at delivering this. The you know, all of that stuff which is hygiene out in the marketplace, unless you're very unlucky.

Adam Gray [00:18:38]:

You know, most people can do most of these jobs competently well. And the reason that I shop with you is because, you know, I like you. Actually, that's the differentiating factor. So, I mean, that is a that is a masterclass in stating the obvious. However, why is it that the number of people that actually action that understanding that it's stating the obvious is so tiny? We spend our whole life talking to organizations that are digging themselves deeper and deeper into a hole, and we say, here's what you need to do, and they go, yeah. You're you're probably right, but I just need to keep digging because the this is what I know. So so why are people so reluctant to say, actually, Mitchell, I like you, you're somebody that I want to do business with. Well, if I feel that way, maybe everybody else feels that Gray, and maybe that should influence my behavior.

Adam Gray [00:19:33]:

Why don't people make that jump?

Mitchell Levy [00:19:38]:

You know, what's what what's really interesting, Adam, is there are there are newer companies that are coming along that the CEO recognizes that we need to change. And as a result, you hear about the handful of these companies where there's good corporate culture. They focus on each and every one of their stakeholders. So I you know, when, I digital now get an MBA. And when I was reading all the books, one of the things that that I read now this is a handful of years ago. I have a couple Gray hairs. When I was reading the books, what they talked about was how important each and every stakeholder was and how important customers were. And almost every Live I've been an entrepreneur since 1997.

Mitchell Levy [00:20:32]:

Almost every company that I worked for, although the words might might have been we care about our customers, almost every company put processes in place that that the customer service department had the least amount of funding and they were at least prepared to be of of power to the customer. And sometimes so, you know, when you're in a large company, 10,000 employees, a 100,000 employees, now you're at the at the wind of which the the management is trying to optimize how much revenue comes into place so that and if it's a public company, so that they can, on a quarter by quarter basis, show the metrics that will allow the investors to want to invest more. So they're not actually working for all stakeholders. They're they're focusing on 1 primary stakeholder, which is the stakeholder that says how much is the the the company worth. If you step back and now let's go back to a smaller firm. If you step back to a smaller firm and you're the CEO, you you actually have a choice. You have a choice of how you show up. And it is as simple as saying, hey.

Mitchell Levy [00:21:48]:

I'm waking up tomorrow and and I, a great example on There's a firm that I'm in conversations with right now, and for the last 25 years, the previous CEO was focused on one thing. And that was, hey. We will run our company in a way that the squeaky wheel, the customer that yells the most is the one that's gonna get service. You can only imagine what the internal organization is like because everyone now recognizes that whoever yells most gets the most. So you could you could only imagine employee engagement is not high. You can only imagine that it's not a fun place to work. Now if you got 25 years of experience doing that, how do you change that overnight? It it's basically a refresh. And and what I what I'd like to say is is how, to me, the most simplest Gray.

Mitchell Levy [00:22:49]:

I so I I really love the word simple. Right? So the most simplest way to do that is to step back and go, what playground does this company play in? What is the most simplest way we could think about who this company is and how they show up? Because one of the easiest ways to empower your employee base is that you say, hey. We this is what we do. You're now empowered to do it. We we've heard many of the stories where you look at the airlines that do a great job of customer service. You look at the hotel industry that has done a great job of customer service. In many cases, what they said, hey. The customer is always right, and you're empowered to spend this amount of money when there's something that's wrong.

Mitchell Levy [00:23:35]:

And by the way, we wanna highlight that and show that to other employees. How do you make sure you do it? What are the stories? What have you done recently to make your customers excited? Those sort of stories are very simple, but we haven't we haven't really moved those around the world in many different industries. So for those who are watching, listening now, question is how can you make x how can you make your your employees happier? And I'm just gonna throw something out there. What I will guarantee is that any company, any human can articulate who they are in less than 10 words. And that level of simplicity is something that will allow you to permeate everything else that you wanna do.

Rob Durant [00:24:25]:

Wow. So I'm gonna take you up on that then. What are some strategies professionals can use to enhance their credibility of their their digital footprint? You said 10 words or Ross? Tell us more about that.

Mitchell Levy [00:24:42]:

And I'm gonna say I'm gonna add to digital footprint is one thing, and then I'm gonna say it's also how you show up. So as as you guys watch the TED Talk. And the TED Talk, there's 10 values associated with credibility, and there's one value in there that was listed twice. It was the value called integrity. Now, by the way, what was funny guys is is I when I the TED talk you saw was who I was 3 years ago after the research. The book, Credit by Nation is who I was 3 years after the research. When I actually published the research, I know the the word integrity was there twice. I actually didn't know why.

Mitchell Levy [00:25:23]:

I just knew that the numbers popped out. It actually took me a year of practice before I actually realized that. And what happened is regarding the the concept of trust, the integrity component or the value associated with trust is your external integrity. It's what you say say to the world. Regarding getting to know you, and by the way, it's trust know Live. It's not that I know of you. It's that I actually know you. And the integrity associated would be known as your internal integrity.

Mitchell Levy [00:25:58]:

This is where everyone having a camera and a microphone comes into place because the old the old parental way of panting, do what I say, not what I do, the old corporate way of commanding control. This is what you do. I'm not gonna do it, but you guys do it. Those don't work. The integrity both external and and internal need to be aligned. Right? So it's more than just the digital footprint. That said on the digital footprint, if you're showing up in more than 1 channel, you wanna be consistent. If you say when you're talking to somebody one thing and then they go to see reinforcement online, whether it's social proof through testimonials, whether it's endorsements, engagements, whether it's anything you wanna look at, whether the the websites itself or social media.

Mitchell Levy [00:26:47]:

If there's inconsistency, there's a word I use called cred crud. If there's inconsistency, if there's cred crud sitting there, what happens is you start losing credibility piece by piece. So the easiest way is if you can and there's a concept, I think I said this in the TEDx. There's a concept called a CPAP, and what that stands for is customer point of possibilities. And if every company, every human can articulate their CPOP, which is in in essence a way to express who you are in 10 words with us. If you could do that, what happens is it's easy to figure out. That becomes the compass that helps guide you of what's next. Should I give you guys the formula of the of the CPOP?

Rob Durant [00:27:43]:

Please. Yes, please. Alright.

Mitchell Levy [00:27:45]:

So and by the way, I will tell you this is simple. And in the Hughes, well, finish on the simple. It's really simple to think Abbott. And what I will tell you is when I was doing interviews, I'd send somebody a 16 minute video. Here is how you prepare. And then when they'd get online and I talked to them, and, yeah, we talked about some percentage didn't show up. You know? Some percentage wasn't ready. What I will tell you is that 98% could not immediately, even after coming prepared, could not immediately articulate their CPAP, customer point of possibilities.

Mitchell Levy [00:28:30]:

And what I'll say it's that's because we've been drilled home that every time we're in front of somebody who is potentially a buyer, we're supposed to say, look at me. I'm amazing at what I do. By the way, don't use that clip because that's not what that's not.

Tim Hughes [00:28:49]:

You will sip that.

Mitchell Levy [00:28:50]:

Is it that well, you could you could have it inside. Just don't when you take the 1 minute, that's not the one you wanna use. Right? So the, what's interesting is if you are a credible human or if you are a credible company, you are of service to somebody else. We got that's okay. Right? So if you're a service to somebody else, first question is who. And the 2nd question is from their perspective, what is either the pain point that they perceive as what they need to get over or what is the pleasure point that they wanna reach. Now what I'll say is 80% of the time you wanna go with a pain point, but there's some audiences where you have to use the pleasure point. And so typically when I when I think about that, I'm happy to I'm happy to share share Live, and we actually if somebody wants to go through it, we could actually go live and and, and work on somebody else's.

Mitchell Levy [00:29:53]:

When you think about the who, it's 1, 2, or 3 words. A lot of times you hear people say they'll stand in front of an audience, they'll do their 32nd elevator pitch, and they go, let's see. I work with authors, speakers, podcasters, and then they have a a people whose first name starts with l and they I mean, by the time they're done, you don't even remember anything. 1, 2, or 3 words. And and so for me, I've really narrowed down. And by the way, this is hard for anyone. It's very hard for me to say this. My executive coaching practice, I typically work with companies between, 1, 10 and a 100,000,000.

Mitchell Levy [00:30:39]:

That said, my primary focus these days is focusing on coaches. And so I'll share with you my CPOP, which happens to be 8 words. And what I will say to you is when somebody actually shares their CPOP, that's the compass. So when you look at somebody's social media, look at their website, you wanna make sure it's consistently aligned. When somebody shares their CPAP, the goal is that the person who's who's listening is someone who says, tell me more. So imagine in 1, 2, 3 seconds, you've been able to do that. So for me, the my CPAP coaches who've created a job, not a business. K.

Mitchell Levy [00:31:24]:

I'm waiting for the tell me more.

Rob Durant [00:31:28]:

Tell me more.

Mitchell Levy [00:31:29]:

Alright. Thank you. Now when you're at in an audience like this, normally, you would you would just say, hey. Let me tell you a little bit more about that. So coaches and and you've looked at all the coaches around the world and many of them came into play with with COVID. They have been taught how to do transformation. There's so many different approaches and people who will say, hey. Listen.

Mitchell Levy [00:31:50]:

I will help you, and then they'll teach other coaches. I'll help you to go from a to b. That said, so many coaches have never been taught how to run a business. They're not entrepreneurial. They don't know how to do business enablement, And so most of their business comes in from referrals, and their referral network is hot or not, and they just don't know. So I Live a complete system that's a done with your approach that allows an object a code to become an entrepreneur and have a continual stream of people they're talking to who become referral partners and customers. That helped me more fit into a bucket. Now depending on who I'm talking to, it works for now I'm it it's really hard for me to to say just the word coaches because it actually works for coaches, consultants, and any smaller businesses where there's 1 or 2 primary rainmakers.

Mitchell Levy [00:32:45]:

But that said, one of the things that happens is the who. One of the conventional marketing cookie cutter approaches we've been taught is let's make our net so wide that the more people we we say we service, eventually, we're gonna say something that the person who we're talking to is gonna say, hey. That's me. I fall into that. That is a marketing cookie cutter approach we've been taught. What I'm gonna say is the more narrow you could be, the more focused you could be, the more clarity you have, the better chance a person look at you even saying, hey. You're really credible. A a good example, one one of the people in my program, her CPAP, successful women heavy with regret.

Mitchell Levy [00:33:36]:

All you have to do is hear those words and you go, I I know Abbott. I'm like that. And and then, you know, if if you're sitting with her and talking to her and and you happen to be a male, not a not a female, you might, hey, can you work with me? She then has the opportunity to say yes if she wanted to. That's typically she works with successful women, not men. Right? And so the more narrow you could be, this is against conventional wisdom, the better opportunity that you're perceived because of the clarity that you're perceived as being someone who's credible. Was that helpful? You you let me go for a little but was that Yeah.

Tim Hughes [00:34:16]:

Mitchell, can you Mitchell, could you that was really useful. Thank you. Could you remind me and go through what CPOP is?

Mitchell Levy [00:34:23]:

Absolutely. So it's it stands for customer point of possibilities. And it is they're they're really it's 2 pieces. Now, by the way, I have, there's a lot of stuff if you looked it up. At the moment, no one's really using it in this way. So, I've got, an online course. We do ongoing activities. We we help people.

Mitchell Levy [00:34:52]:

I do a 90 minute session, once a once a month. We do have a course you can go to and and do it yourself. It's really 2 pieces. 1st piece is who. 1, 2 or 3 words. So it's who do you serve and as narrow as you can as you could find that. And the 2nd piece is either the pain point or the pleasure point. So successful women heavy with regret pain point approach.

Alex Abbott [00:35:22]:

So I Coaching

Mitchell Levy [00:35:23]:

sorry. Go ahead.

Alex Abbott [00:35:24]:

Sorry to to butt in there, Mitchell. No.

Mitchell Levy [00:35:26]:

That's alright.

Alex Abbott [00:35:27]:

Just so, lovely to hear this because I've been playing around with my own CPOP for a little while. Awesome. I wonder if I could share with you what I think it might be, and you can tell me whether or not it's on the money or needs more work. I would love that. Probably fantastic, Alex. So and I've just deleted 1 word so it's 10 words. Okay. Eliminate eliminate poor mental health from sales.

Alex Abbott [00:35:59]:

Make sales fun again.

Mitchell Levy [00:36:06]:

I have to write it down so if I'm looking away from the camera, I'm a visual person.

Alex Abbott [00:36:11]:

I can put it in the chat. Can I put it in the chat? In our internal chat. No.

Tim Hughes [00:36:17]:

So so say it again, Alex. Yeah. Gray I wanna get the audience to to to to comment again?

Alex Abbott [00:36:23]:

Eliminate poor mental health from sales, make sales fun again.

Tim Hughes [00:36:29]:

And I'm gonna write and CPOP is so customer point of possibility is who do you serve in 2 or 3 words, and then either the pain point or the pleasure point.

Mitchell Levy [00:36:41]:

Tim, I was just gonna say that.

Tim Hughes [00:36:43]:

Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I'm

Mitchell Levy [00:36:45]:

No. No. No. I love that. So so one of the things I'm gonna say, Alex, is we've been taught to do taglines. Yeah. And and I'm not even gonna say this. I'm gonna say that could be a good tagline.

Mitchell Levy [00:36:59]:

And once I know your CPOP, now you're gonna know so what happens is when you know your CPOP, you could go, hey. Does that feel comfortable as a tagline? Right? So so, yeah, Tim, you got it right. So let's start with, Alex, who do you serve?

Rob Durant [00:37:15]:

Alex, before you do that, I wanted to share some, audience comments just to, enhance this. So, first of all, Jeanne Lehman says, align your external and internal integrity. That was, I think, you know, callback to what we were talking about earlier. And our, resident comedian, Mark Borreson, had piped up with with the tell me Lorena, quoting Gray. Quoting Greece. Tell me more. Tell me more. Was it love at first sight? Tell me more.

Rob Durant [00:37:46]:

Tell me more. Did she put up a fight? Always great to hear from you, Mark. Thank you.

Mitchell Levy [00:37:51]:

But That was good. You should you should say it faster and,

Rob Durant [00:37:54]:

you know, maybe you should say

Tim Hughes [00:37:56]:

that too.

Rob Durant [00:37:57]:

Yes. Gabe Gabe, I apologize in advance. I'm going to get your last name wrong, but I am going to try. Gabe Zubazaretta says, why is work not fun? Why is sales not fun? So I think that's the context of, you know, what Alex is trying to Ross, and that's why I I share that

Mitchell Levy [00:38:27]:

here. Oh, I love that. Thank you. Gabe, glad glad you're tuning in. So, Alex, who do you serve?

Alex Abbott [00:38:34]:

So I serve salespeople in terms of the, the services that I provide. And, you know, there's there's a ton of research out there that has is is saying that there's a mental health pandemic in in sales. 3 in 5 salespeople are suffering depending on the research. 4 out of 5 are highly stressed. And, you know, from what from what I see, there's a high degree of pressure on salespeople to perform in their jobs, yet they're not given the tools or the guidance or even the autonomy to to be as successful as I'm sure they could be.

Mitchell Levy [00:39:17]:

So it can you be more specific on the salespeople?

Alex Abbott [00:39:21]:

Abbott b? Is there

Mitchell Levy [00:39:25]:

a certain class? Is it is it salespeople or small companies, large companies? Is it, you know, any Abbott, 10,000 person Salesforce? Do is it all of the above?

Alex Abbott [00:39:36]:

Yeah. So it's so it's anyone in sales. But in terms of my own ICP, it's typically sales teams that I think I can help effectively. Sales teams that want to, you know, operationalize Live approach.

Mitchell Levy [00:39:56]:

Start ups, $10,000,000 companies, $10,000,000,000 companies. Does it matter?

Alex Abbott [00:40:01]:

The it doesn't I mean, it doesn't really matter. I've got a mix a mix of clients from, you know, helping individuals to helping, you know, 20 people or Lorena, 20 salespeople or more.

Mitchell Levy [00:40:15]:

Got it. So we're gonna go with sales teams. I I like that better than salespeople. And then the the next thing is, what would be the pain point that the those sales teams that you were that you really Ross for them?

Alex Abbott [00:40:36]:

Yeah. So the the pain point would be, a number of things. So they're struggling to have conversations with the people that they want to do business with. You know, they're struggling with with you know, to the point we were talking about earlier, is demonstrating their credibility at scale digitally to help open the door. They're they're struggling to then convert those conversations into qualified pipeline. And then that has a knock on effect on their ability to hit their targets and deliver the revenue that they're being asked to deliver.

Mitchell Levy [00:41:15]:

Essentially selling effective. Yeah. What's a pleasure point?

Alex Abbott [00:41:25]:

Enjoying your job, leveraging, selling being creative, hitting your target, enjoying your job, feeling a sense of purpose, feeling a sense of belonging.

Mitchell Levy [00:41:45]:

So do you think it's important that sales teams enjoy their jobs? 100%.

Alex Abbott [00:41:51]:

I think it's, yeah, I think it's important for people.

Tim Hughes [00:41:55]:

Is it the sell is it salespeople or is it sales leaders, Alex?

Alex Abbott [00:41:59]:

Both. K.

Mitchell Levy [00:42:02]:

Typically, if you think about, that's a great question, by the way, if you think about who's paying you 80% of your revenue, where Ross it come from?

Alex Abbott [00:42:13]:

Oh, you mean okay. So what? 20% of the sales team are generating 80% of the revenue? Is that what you mean, or are you talking about your customers?

Mitchell Levy [00:42:21]:

No. I think about the customers. The the the who are you reaching out to? Who who's the one that you really need to convince to to buy you?

Alex Abbott [00:42:33]:

Yeah. Usually the budget holder, but other influences along the way.

Rob Durant [00:42:39]:

Alex, I think he's asking specific to you though. Are you specifically selling to individuals or to corporations? Who who

Alex Abbott [00:42:48]:

do you need to convince? Yeah. Well, it's it's always an it's always people and individual. It depends on their role, but typically, it's the sales leader.

Mitchell Levy [00:42:58]:

That by the way, that was a great question. It's it's the eventually, we would Live gotten to whether it's a sales teams or sales leaders. Right? Got it. Interesting. And does a sales leader recognize what do they think? The if they're not hitting their goals, what are some of the reasons they think it's not being hit?

Alex Abbott [00:43:25]:

Because their team isn't doing enough activities that that aren't working. And, yeah, and, I mean, it could be a whole host of reasons that could end up being excuses, Abbott, I think a lot of the time, they don't know.

Adam Gray [00:43:49]:

It it's it's normally, isn't it? Because the sales team are busy and working really hard, but they're working hard on the wrong things. So the things that they're they're doing are not driving success, and the things that they should be doing that might drive success, they're not focusing on.

Rob Durant [00:44:05]:

That's longer than 10 words, Adam. I'm sorry.

Mitchell Levy [00:44:07]:

Is it? Uh-huh.

Adam Gray [00:44:09]:

Ten pages?

Rob Durant [00:44:11]:

No. There we go. So what we're trying to do at this point is identify the ideal target audience and then the either their pain or their desired future state, and and with that come up with the the CPOP. Is that right, Mitchell?

Mitchell Levy [00:44:37]:

I have I have 2 I'm gonna share. And so, normally, what'll happen is we I'll give you a couple that you could think about. Right? And then as you start, as you start thinking it through, we could narrow it down, but it's gonna sound a whole lot better or different than eliminate mental health from sales, make sales fun again. I mean, as much as, like, I think that's a great tagline, Tim may actually fit in either of these sales sales points.

Alex Abbott [00:45:10]:

Yeah. Rob actually made a comment that got me thinking, which is, where's it gone?

Rob Durant [00:45:19]:

You started with pain, Alex?

Alex Abbott [00:45:20]:

Pain, Alex. Could I even reverse? Keep it as simple as just reversing the, the sentence. So make sales fun again, eliminate poor mental health from sales.

Mitchell Levy [00:45:35]:

Oh, so I love that as a tagline. Okay. I love that as a tagline. So what I would say is if we and I, by the way, Gray. I'll give you a, let me move this over to this side so I can at least, look at look at the camera while I but I have to see it and and, write it down. So the I would tend to lean towards the I would tend to lead towards the pain point. The problem with the pain point is it's it's potentially harder for the sales leader to wanna agree with it. Right? That's why the tagline is is is positive.

Mitchell Levy [00:46:12]:

So you may end up because of ego, you may end up going with a pleasure point versus pain point, but let me give you both. K. So as a as a pain point, you might be able to do something like sales leaders not knowing why they're missing the goal. And what I would do is I'd probably put not knowing in double quotes. So sales leaders not knowing why they're missing their goal. That would be a a CPOP because the the concept of a CPOP, it doesn't say anything about you. It just happens to be a playground you play in.

Alex Abbott [00:46:51]:

K.

Mitchell Levy [00:46:52]:

The positive one, which is kind of interesting, sales leaders excited at the board meeting.

Alex Abbott [00:47:00]:

Sales is a I like

Mitchell Levy [00:47:03]:

that. It it from an ego perspective, in this, when you're dealing with sales leaders, huge egos. A Pleasure point will typically when you're working with CEOs, typically Pleasure Point works better than Pain Point. Then, Alex, if it turns out that your CPOP is sales leaders excited at the board meeting, your tell me more is something to the extent, you know, most sales leaders today have been taught incorrectly. They've been taught to beat into their their sales teams all the things that make the job not fun. And if it's not fun, they can't relate not just to themselves, they can't relate to their audience. And if they can't relate to the audience, they're not making the sales they need to make. If you did nothing more than than align how you're helping the salespeople get excited about who they are and what they do, When they come to work and they're happy, they're having better conversations, they're meeting their goals, the sales leader is a whole lot happier when they're at when they're at the board meeting.

Alex Abbott [00:48:07]:

Yeah. K. You like those. Thank you.

Rob Durant [00:48:11]:

Alex, thank you for stepping up. Thank you for

Tim Hughes [00:48:13]:

I was

Alex Abbott [00:48:13]:

really excited

Rob Durant [00:48:14]:

about it. I see pop live.

Tim Hughes [00:48:16]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Abbott [00:48:17]:

There we go. Put you and me on the spot, Mitchell.

Mitchell Levy [00:48:20]:

Yeah. I'm sorry. Say that again?

Alex Abbott [00:48:21]:

I said I put you and I on the spot, Abbott, I learned from that. Thank you very much.

Mitchell Levy [00:48:28]:

Oh, I appreciate that. No. It's it's well, first of all, this may not be a 100% right for you, but we had a chance to play. Yeah. Right? And what'll happen is normally what happens if you go to sleep tonight, you wake up in the morning, and you go, oh my god. That's really it? And and by the way, if that's it, I can guarantee you when you go to your website and you go to your social media, you're gonna go, holy cow, I need to do a lot of changes. Everything changes. Now, by the way, the CPOP that you mentioned or the tagline you mentioned fits real well into that CPOP.

Mitchell Levy [00:49:03]:

I actually try to use it and then tell me more. Yeah. I'll just give one more thought. The tell me more, you never have to memorize. The CPAP becomes your, you know, your you. That is your compass. And as a compass, it's gonna help you show up both on and offline in a consistent way. But to tell me more, you want to make and share in relation to the audience you're talking to.

Mitchell Levy [00:49:33]:

K. Right? So, Adam, that's why you you like the board because you probably sit in a bunch of board meetings, and you're like, wait. How cool would it be if the sales person was in the, you know, glowing in the board because they hit the sales? Like, you know, sales is what makes the company work. Right? That would be amazing. And everyone's gonna say, how'd you do that? I I

Adam Gray [00:49:50]:

I think what's really interesting is that what your process of doing a CPOP is less about sales pitch. And the majority of people Lorena they deliver their headline, whatever that is, you know, it's my elevator pitch. It's how I introduce myself at an event. It's how I introduce myself online through my LinkedIn headline or or my opening Live, whoever when I'm talking to someone. There's in most cases, people use that as an opportunity to distill their sales pitch into one line. And this is quite the reverse of that because when you start pitching to me when I don't know you, I'm gonna go, oh, I don't like that very much. And this this is absolutely about, speaking half a sentence to somebody where they're leaning forward and they're going, well, go on, Jensen. And and I love the thinking behind this.

Adam Gray [00:50:43]:

Really good.

Mitchell Levy [00:50:45]:

By the way, thank you so much for summarizing it in a much better accent than I have.

Adam Gray [00:50:51]:

Sadly Adam, the accent is all I have.

Mitchell Levy [00:50:55]:

I doubt that is true at all.

Rob Durant [00:50:59]:

Mitchell, we have just a few minutes left. Please tell us, how can people, learn more about you? What do you have going on these days?

Mitchell Levy [00:51:10]:

So the easiest one one of the things that we all do, as mistakes is we'll iterate a gazillion different places for people to go, and by that time you hit the 2nd or 3rd, you don't remember anything. So it's Mitchell Live. So it's 3 l's, m I Tracy h e l l e v y dot com. And that will get you to wherever you need to go. You know, if if you're in an organization, you're like, hey, Mitchell, we need to talk. You can get to my calendar. Once a month, we are doing 90 minute clarity sessions. I guarantee everyone will leave the room with their CPAP.

Mitchell Levy [00:51:47]:

I've got a membership community called credibility nation. You could take a asynchronous course. It's an hour long and get that yourself. If you're a coach consultant, you can you can learn what is our program, the the certified clarity specialist Gray, and and learn about that. There is one thing I I did that's new, and I'll just share it. It's called referral network club.com. So it's a once it's another once a month, an hour long. You get to come to that.

Mitchell Levy [00:52:18]:

It's it's $20. And, when you sign up, you're sent a 10 minute video how to craft your CPOP and tell me Shorten, and you have a chance to practice it twice and to meet up to 6 people. If you could spend an hour and find 1 person who you really like that might be a referral customer, that's a pretty good ROI.

Rob Durant [00:52:42]:

Absolutely. Excellent. Thank you so much. I wanted to share with our audience. We now have a newsletter. Don't miss an episode. Get show highlights, behind the show insights, and reminders of upcoming episodes. Click the QR code on screen here or visit us at digital download dot live and click on newsletter.

Rob Durant [00:53:10]:

On behalf of our panelists, to our guests, to our audience, thank you very much, Mitchell. This has been fantastic.

Mitchell Levy [00:53:21]:

And we

Rob Durant [00:53:21]:

will see you all next time.

Mitchell Levy [00:53:23]:

Thanks so much for having me. I loved it. Thanks,

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