This week on The Digital Download, we delve into the eco-friendly practice of vermicomposting with our special guest, Cathy Nesbitt. Cathy, the owner of Cathy's Crawly Composters, has spent over two decades advocating for sustainable waste management with worms. Her unique insights and hands-on experience make her a leading voice in promoting environmental sustainability.

Discover the transformative power of worms as we tackle questions such as:

* How can vermicomposting benefit urban dwellers with limited space?

* What are the steps to start your own worm farm?

* Why is worm compost considered superior to traditional compost?

* How does vermicomposting contribute to a circular economy?

* What are the common misconceptions about indoor composting with worms?

Cathy's passion for the environment and her extensive experience in vermiculture provide a fresh perspective on waste management. Join us to learn how you can turn your kitchen scraps into garden gold, contributing to both personal and planetary health.

We strive to make The Digital Download an interactive experience. Bring your questions. Bring your insights. Audience participation is highly encouraged!

This week we were joined by our Special Guest -

• Cathy Nesbitt. Cathy, the owner of Cathy's Crawly Composters

This week's Host was -

• Rob Durant, Founder of Flywheel Results, a proud DLA Ignite partner

Panelists included -

• Tim Hughes, CEO & Co-founder of DLA Ignite, and

• Bertrand Godillot, Managing Partner, Odysseus & Co, a proud DLA Ignite partner

Transcript of The Digital Download 2024-07-26

Rob Durant [00:00:02]:

Good morning, good afternoon, and good day wherever you may be joining us from. Welcome to another edition of the digital download, the longest running weekly business talk show on LinkedIn Live. Now globally syndicated on TuneIn Radio through IBGR, the world's number one business talk, news, and strategy radio network. Today, we're discussing why your trash can be your greatest asset. We have a special guest, Kathy Nesbitt, to help us with the discussion. Kathy's passion for the environment and her extensive experience in vermiculture provide a fresh perspective on waste management. But before we bring Kathy on, let's go around and introduce everyone. While we're doing that, why don't you in the audience reach out to a friend, ping them, and have them join us? We strive to make the digital download an interactive experience so audience participation is highly encouraged.

Rob Durant [00:01:08]:

Alright. With that, introductions. Tim, would you kick us off, please?

Tim Hughes [00:01:15]:

Yes. Welcome, everybody. My name is Tim Hughes. I'm the CEO and cofounder of DLA Knight, and I'm famous for writing the book, social selling techniques to influence buyers and change makers.

Rob Durant [00:01:27]:

Excellent. Thank you very much. Bertrand, welcome.

Bertrand Godillot [00:01:31]:

Welcome. Well, thank you. Welcome, everyone. My name is Bertrand Godiot. I am the founder and managing partner of Odysseus and Co, And we, focus, on helping customers enable a very productive social presence. And I'm a very proud DLA partner DLA Ignite partner.

Rob Durant [00:01:52]:

Excellent. Thank you very much. And myself, I am Rob Durant. I'm the founder of Flywheel Results. We help businesses scale their sales through hypergrowth, and I too am a very proud DLA Ignite partner. As I said, this week on the digital download, we'll speak with Kathy Nesbitt, owner of Kathy's Crowley composters. She has spent over 2 decades advocating for sustainable waste management. Her unique insights and hands on experience make her a leading voice in promoting environmental sustainability.

Rob Durant [00:02:33]:

Let's bring her on. Kathy, good morning and welcome.

Tim Hughes [00:02:38]:

Hi, Kathy.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:02:39]:

Good morning. Hi, everybody. Thanks for having me on. I'm excited.

Rob Durant [00:02:45]:

We're excited too. This is going to be a fun one. Kathy, let's start by having you tell us a little bit more about you, your background, and what led you to where you are today.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:02:56]:

Thank you. So my working title is Cathy Crowley laughing bean queen. I it doesn't fit on a business card. It's I offer simple solutions for today's challenges. Worms for amending the soil, sprouts for eating, grow your own, and laughter for overall health and wellness. The the worm business, it's the 22nd anniversary of Kathy's Curling Composters. I'm located just north of Toronto in Canada. And in 2002, our landfill closed, and we started to export our garbage to the United States.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:03:31]:

Almost a 1,000 trucks a week were making the trip from the Toronto area to Michigan.

Tim Hughes [00:03:36]:

Sorry, Rob. Okay.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:03:39]:

That's what I usually sorry. How Canadian.

Rob Durant [00:03:43]:

You said Michigan. You didn't mean Washington, DC?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:03:49]:

That's right. Michigan. Yes. The trash capital, Michigan is. They kept so yeah. I mean, without getting into too much politics about what happened, I think Michigan was the automotive capital, And Ford, GM, Chrysler had their headquarters there, and then everyone started to make cars. We make cars in Ontario now. So Michigan needed a new industry, and I I don't know.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:04:14]:

I guess they just thought maybe we'll be the trash capital. So they have the lowest tipping fees for landfill, and surrounding states send their their trash to Michigan as well. But the Canadian trash is what causes the most trouble. But that's finished now. We found a spot in Canada. Thank goodness we're a second largest country. Yeah. So I had a solution.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:04:39]:

That's you know, and I laugh a lot because this is a really heavy mission. Wait. Managing our waste is one of the big one of the easiest things we can do to help mitigate climate change. This is indoor composting with worms. It's the same idea as outdoor composting except done inside. Yeah. So this is so that's that's my beginning.

Rob Durant [00:05:02]:

Thank you for that. So, Kathy, let's start with a foundational question for today's discussion. Why do you consider trash an asset?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:05:13]:

It's trash. Well, words are interesting. It's what we call it. If we call it trash, we call it garbage, then it is. If we call it a resource, then it is than it is. So we take this organic matter, our food scraps, our paper, which we call garbage, and turn it into black gold. The worms of the original alchemists, so they could they transform that material into something usable so we can grow more nutrient rich food. So trash to me is something nature doesn't make garbage.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:05:47]:

We're the garbage makers. So we take the resources from nature, and then we convert it into something that may not be usable. Like, plastic and stuff is useful for one time, but going forward, it's it's gonna be the death of us. So when we when we take this organic matter and turn it into soil, now it's something very valuable.

Bertrand Godillot [00:06:13]:

Katie, I've I've got lots of questions because, you you know, I'm, I am growing vegetables on my decks, you know, in my

Tim Hughes [00:06:23]:

So you've got a, like, an apartment?

Bertrand Godillot [00:06:25]:

I mean, a flat. Yes.

Tim Hughes [00:06:27]:

In in

Bertrand Godillot [00:06:28]:

deck. One one facing east, the other one facing west. So it's not the best, exposure. But, in any case, you know, I I'm very conscious about the, the organic matter that I would call a resource, and I'm I'm I'm deeply convinced about this. And and, of course, I did try actually, I did try three times to grow worms, and and and feed them with, with that matter. But for some reason, there's something I must be doing wrong. You know, I I can't get I can't get the point between humidity. You know? Is it is it a question of temperature? Are we do we already have too high temperature down in Toulouse so that, they don't feel comfortable? Or, you know, I'm I'm just wondering, you know, how how you get that to work because it it it should be actually pretty simple.

Bertrand Godillot [00:07:21]:

But, the reality is has been for me, 3 subsequent absolute disaster.

Tim Hughes [00:07:28]:

So, Kathy, for somebody like Bertrand, who's who's, like, you you know, if we've got an apartment, and and we wanna grow worms, where do we start?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:07:39]:

Wonderful. So there there are 3 key elements to successful vermicomposting, temperature, moisture, and airflow. Temperature, I'm bilingual, so 16 to 28 Celsius or 60 to 80 Fahrenheit for the international audience. Moisture is about 70%, 70 to 75% humidity. You don't need a moisture gauge. You can feel that it's moist. If it's dry, you need to add more water. And airflow, you need to have holes in your bin.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:08:12]:

So any container will do. A rubber a rubber made toad or any kind of plastic container is soft.

Tim Hughes [00:08:20]:

Can you buy them, Kathy?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:08:22]:

Yes. There are systems to purchase. Right. And they're then they're wonderful. But it's not the system that makes it work. You still need to create the right environment. Okay. So the worms require a carbon nitrogen mix just like outdoor composting.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:08:37]:

The carbon is shredded paper, leaves, straw, cardboard, drink trays. Any combination of these products can be used for your bedding. And the nitrogen or the food source is your scraps from the kitchen. Banana peels, coffee, tea, cooked pasta, and rice can go in. And

Tim Hughes [00:08:58]:

But but the key thing is that, the key thing is that, it's not like tomato sauce and stuff like

Kathy Nesbitt [00:09:06]:

that. Yes. Exactly. So what stays out of your worm bin? No meat, no dairy, no sauce, no condiments, no salt, anything, no grease, anything that might cause trouble for the worms. The worms breathe through their skin. So you wanna make sure, just like frogs, you wanna make sure that the environment is is optimum for them. You need to balance the acidity and the bedding, the pH, with eggshells or calcium carbonate. If people are vegan and they don't eat eggs, that's okay.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:09:35]:

You can use, you can actually use crushed up Tums or rollades because it's an antacid. So you're you're actually just What did you say? You know, rum, rums. Tums are roll aids that you take if you have, acid reflux.

Tim Hughes [00:09:50]:

Oh, okay. It's like the Like, bicarbonate soda type.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:09:55]:

Yes. Correct. So using eggshells is a wonderful thing. Yeah. So you can just add to your question eggshells, and that will help to balance the pH. Yeah. So, Bertrand, to answer your question, I think it it it can be a whole combination of things. If when things go wrong, they go wrong very quickly.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:10:15]:

Action is required very you know. Three times. Yes. So so, what kind of worm did you have?

Bertrand Godillot [00:10:26]:

I mean, the the red ones. You know, the the in French, we call it the long breaks, but I think it's it's just, earthworms, basically. You know? The

Kathy Nesbitt [00:10:36]:

That could have been your challenge. So there's there's thousands of types of worms. Only 4 have been identified as optimum for vermicomposting. We're looking for surface.

Bertrand Godillot [00:10:45]:

These these were. These were.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:10:46]:

Oh, they were. Okay. I I don't know.

Tim Hughes [00:10:48]:

I'd so where'd you get where'd you get worms from? A pet shop or something?

Bertrand Godillot [00:10:52]:

I bought them actually from a from a from a farm. Right. And, and maybe that's the maybe that's part of the issue. It's just, you know. But I I I get the the point, you know, where, temperature is certainly one of the challenges. Humidity, I got that all the time that it needs to be, you know, quite quite humid, the, you know, 70, 75%. Okay? Airflow, I think there was airflow, but maybe not too not so much. But then the pH is, is is probably something that, actually, it's it's almost a use case for IoT.

Bertrand Godillot [00:11:29]:

You know? A bunch of sensors and and then

Kathy Nesbitt [00:11:35]:

Yes. Thank you.

Bertrand Godillot [00:11:35]:

Try to monitor your arm, you know, with with, with the right sensors.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:11:41]:

I can just see

Rob Durant [00:11:42]:

the worms typing away on their computers. Yes.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:11:45]:

I I think that's the problem is that we we try to micromanage everything. And if we look to nature, nobody's looking after the worms in in the wild. They will just come, and if people dispose of garbage in the forest, it's gonna be covered. In a couple of years, that will be covered. The worms will take over, and they'll bury that waste.

Bertrand Godillot [00:12:07]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So bad.

Rob Durant [00:12:11]:

Cathy, why is worm compost considered superior to traditional compost?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:12:20]:

Compost is is great. It's a fine thing. Worm compost is finer. It's more processed by nature. Although, usually, processing is not the best thing. With worm what the worms do is they they turn the material into a time release capsule. So each little casting or worm poo. Yes.

Tim Hughes [00:12:42]:

It's worm poo, isn't it?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:12:44]:

It's worm poo.

Tim Hughes [00:12:45]:

Worm poo. Yes.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:12:46]:

It is. The casting is the fancy word for worm poo. Yeah. And so each little casting or worm poo is like a time release capsule. The worm the earth will take from it as it needs it. You you can't add too much, but it's super rich so you don't wanna waste it by just throwing it, you know, you know, on your garden. You wanna use it targeted. So it yeah.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:13:10]:

It's it the worms will bind up any heavy metals. So if there's heavy metals in your material that you're adding in, anything toxic, the worms will will weed that out, and it doesn't get into the final product. They they really are remarkable creatures, and in India, they had a project where they there was a silk, factory that there they had contaminated the soil around with their disposed disposing of the the wastewater. And they added worms in there, and the worms were able to clean up that soil, which was wow. It's amazing. You wouldn't wanna take those worms and add them, you know, you wouldn't want them to feed them to chickens then, or put them up the feed the food chain. They would be working to do the composting.

Rob Durant [00:13:59]:

And you mentioned, this can be done indoors?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:14:04]:

Yes. Yes. How do you like me now? Worm's in the house. Who doesn't want that? That's the challenge of a worm business. You know, people don't buy what they need. They buy what they want. And they don't necessarily no. But, yeah, they they don't necessarily want worms in the house.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:14:21]:

This is a beautiful solution for anywhere. So in Canada, in the winter, we can't compost outside. Not that you can, just everything's frozen, so it slows right down. It's too cold. Right? It's it's something still happening. It just takes a lot longer. In California or Texas, too hot in the summer, so the worms will cook. So I'm I'm not sure in Toulouse how warm it is, but if we're doing it inside, if we're comfortable, the worms are comfortable.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:14:49]:

It doesn't have to be an exact temperature. It's the change that the worms don't like. So in the wind so in, say we'll say Texas. In the day, it might be too hot, and then maybe it cools down at night. I'm not sure. Right? So if we're inside, even if you have your air conditioning in it, then you have it kind of cool ish, that will be fine because it's always gonna be uniform temperature.

Bertrand Godillot [00:15:16]:

And you do you also collect the tea?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:15:21]:

Yeah. So if you wanna collect the compost tea, not for drinking, but for your plants as liquid fertilizer, just so people aren't like, oh, I'll make my own tea. No. Don't drink it. Although, maybe you grow hair, Tim. I don't know. I'm I'm not looking to him.

Bertrand Godillot [00:15:39]:

Yeah. We've got British audience. So, you know, English audience even.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:15:43]:

This might be a challenge in a Rubbermaid container. You know, if you just have a single unit collecting the tea, because I do advocate for managing your moisture on the way in, so you don't it doesn't get too wet. If you have a system, there's tower composters, and they they function pretty similar where you have a couple of trays, and there's holes in the bottom of each tray. Start with 1 tray, add the next tray on top, and the worms migrate up. There's generally a base in the bottom that will collect the excess moisture and a tap in the bottom, and that's a beautiful thing. With a caution. So if that liquid, if it smells bad, it's become anaerobic. Anaerobic means it's not it's not good or bad.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:16:27]:

It's just that it's different bacteria. Those are the bacteria that don't require oxygen. So the smelly buggers. If it your work plants always require aerobic bacteria. You don't wanna add any of those anaerobic microbes into your soil because once they're there, they're always present.

Bertrand Godillot [00:16:50]:

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Durant [00:16:51]:

You alluded to odor. What are the common misconceptions about indoor composting odor and such?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:17:01]:

Thank you. Yes. Some of the objections. Because we're adding in rotting food, the idea is, oh my gosh. It's my my kitchen's gonna smell like rotting food because I'm adding rotting food in. Not true. The worms eat the odor, so they're once they get established, it's such a quick system that the worms that there's no time for it to get smelly. You're adding your scraps in, and the worms get right to it.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:17:27]:

They eat about half their weight per day in food scraps. So for easy math, I'll use a pound of worms. If you had a pound of worms, you would be adding about half a pound of food scraps per day, 3 to £4 per week, and they convert the material. They reduce the volume by about 80%. So although you're adding in, quite a bit of material, they're reducing it quite a bit, and then you get this black cold. So that's one of the objections is the odor. They're they're if if your bin smells, action is required because the worms breathe oxygen. It's it's it's it's like this is was made to be done inside.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:18:10]:

We breathe oxygen. The worms breathe oxygen. If it smells bad, it's now converted to gas or methane, and we can't breathe gas and neither can the worms.

Bertrand Godillot [00:18:22]:

Do do you need to shred you need to shred the, your, your, your organic matter? So so does it need to be shred so that they they actually, eat it faster? Or do do you have any recommendation on that? I'm sorry. Absolutely. Oh, it's a tricky question.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:18:42]:

No. It's beautiful. It's perfect. Yes. The yes. You need to shred up your material. The paper, you can shred it by hand or through a paper shredder. That's fine.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:18:53]:

Imagine an apple. You had an apple, and you added the whole apple in with the peel unbroken. The worms can't get to it. They don't have eyes, but if they did, they'd be like, oh, now we have to wait for our our bug friends to break that down. The smaller the scraps, the faster it breaks down. The more exposed surface, the faster it breaks down, the more the worms can eat. So But

Tim Hughes [00:19:15]:

if you've got, like, a banana skin, you can or a grapefruit or, half a grapefruit as in, you know, you've cut it in half. You can put that in, can you? Or do you need to, like, cut the grapefruit up?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:19:27]:

Thank you for grapefruit. I do suggest leaving out citrus.

Tim Hughes [00:19:31]:

Okay. Right.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:19:32]:

So lemons, orange, limes, grapefruit. Leave those out. There is a toxic element in the peel Right. For for worms. Okay. And so one you know, I I do a lot of school workshops, so I definitely suggest that they leave citrus out altogether. Because imagine one day, everybody could bring an orange. And now now the worms are just getting orange, and it's too acidic.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:19:54]:

It's there's this toxic element. They're gonna leave anything that isn't for them. The the students will often ask, oh, if I put in, an elastic band, will they eat it? No. No. They're just gonna go around it, but it will be less left there forever. Yeah. Yes. And I

Bertrand Godillot [00:20:12]:

think it's the same garlic garlic and onion. Right?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:20:16]:

Yeah. So garlic and onion, they they kind of don't break down. You can add them in, but they don't really add any benefit. They're just that papery subject. So I would just I I actually just throw those out with the leaves. I just put them outside.

Tim Hughes [00:20:29]:

I can't believe that a French person throwing out garlic.

Bertrand Godillot [00:20:36]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's where that's exactly where you can tell that, I've not I'm not a I'm not a native from the southwest of France.

Rob Durant [00:20:46]:

Kathy, I I think you mentioned, a pound of worms, a half pound of organic matter each day. I I apologize if I got my numbers wrong. But, what do you expect is the typical amount of waste a household produces each day? And I suppose that depends on the size of the household. So in that case, what would a typical person produce each day?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:21:14]:

Perfect.

Rob Durant [00:21:15]:

My real question is this. I have 7 people living under my roof. How many pounds of worms do I need?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:21:22]:

Perfect. So it's not a per person ratio. It's it's lifestyle. Vegetarian and vegan are gonna produce more scraps than meat and potatoes. If you're preparing your food from scratch, you're you're producing more than if you buy packaged goods or you eat in restaurants mostly. So those those are the questions that I ask when people say, oh, we're 5 people in our house. How many worms? I I if people really wanna know how many worms they need, I suggest weighing their waste for a week or a couple of weeks in a bucket, all the scraps that can be fed to the worms, leaving out meat, and all the the things that don't go in. And see how much you produce in a couple of weeks.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:22:08]:

Then that will give you an average, and you'll you'll have a better idea. But when I was doing research before I started my business, I learned that the average Canadian family produces a ton of organic waste in a year, and that a pound of worms and their descendants can transform a ton of organic waste in a year. So I said, wow. Every family needs a pound of worms. And I'm just the one to put a pound of worms in every house. And not that a, not that a pound of worms can manage a ton of organic waste in one bin. They would need space to grow, so you would need to expand your system. And here's the math on that.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:22:44]:

Worms breed more than rabbits. So in 3 to 5 months, the worms are gonna double in numbers. So if you start with a pound, you'll have £2, and then you'll have £4, and so on and so on. Not in one little bin. The worms, at a certain point, you'll have a a beautiful biomass of worms, and you'll you'll be adding your scraps and, wow, I have so many worms. At that point, you can either take some out and start another bin. So those worms will reproduce and then the new worms will get established in the the next system, or you can leave them and they'll work it out for themselves. The adults start dying off to make room for the babies.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:23:25]:

And it's really this is such an incredible lesson. It's it's a great education for for everybody. It's so fascinating watching the words. It's not something that we think about until you have somebody like me on your show. And I and, you know, I wasn't always a worm lover. It was just that I saw this big problem, And I was introduced to vermicomposting when I bought my house in 93. It was a disaster because I had a fruit fly explosion explosion, and that's the second objection. I'll talk about that in a moment.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:23:59]:

So when I started my the first time my first introduction to worms, I was throwing the food, and I didn't want worms in the house. I wanted the black gold that they create. As an avid gardener, I knew the value of the compost. I didn't wanna do the process, and that's where most people are. They want the end product, but they don't wanna do the work. Yeah. So that so that's so let me talk about the fruit flies since I brought that up and people are like, Yeah. I don't want fruit flies.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:24:26]:

When people say to me, Oh, I don't want to have fruit flies in my house. I ask them, have you ever had fruit flies? Yes. Most have. Have you ever had a worm bin? No. Except Bertrand. No? Okay, good. So you know that the fruit flies don't come from the worm bin if you've never had one in your house. They come from the fruit.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:24:46]:

They're fruit flies. So they're on the, they're on all, they're pretty much on all the fruit peels. We wash the apples. We wash, we wash the pears. We wash most fruit before we eat it. The bananas, we do not. We peel the banana, and we eat the banana, so the fruit flies are still on the banana peel. What I suggest people do is give anything they don't generally wash before adding it into the worm bin.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:25:11]:

Give it a quick rinse. That will wash off the peels, And then chopping it up. So the fruit the banana peel, to answer your earlier, comment, Tim, about banana peels, you can add the banana peel right in. And I I joke with the students that they the worms will use it as a slide. They'll, wee, like sliding down the banana peel. It will decompose pretty quickly and they can get to that. Other stuff you really wanna chop up like, cabbage. Cabbage is something that lasts forever.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:25:43]:

It's gonna be there several rounds. So the things that you're adding in, it will depend on how fast it breaks down. Lettuce will break down much quicker than cabbage. Tomatoes are pretty juicy, so they break down pretty quick. Watermelon, pretty juicy. So depending what you're adding in is, how fast it will break down.

Rob Durant [00:26:08]:

So I have this worm bin in my house, and it's producing black gold. How do I get black gold from my worm bin to my garden without having black gold all over my house?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:26:23]:

Good. That's a great question. You need to harvest. So once the worms have converted all the material, then you would, if you're comfortable with the worms and you don't have a system, you're just using a a single unit, the easiest way is to dump it out on a plastic sheet outside on a sunny day, put it in small round piles. The worms are photosensitive or afraid of the light, so they're gonna go down to the in the piles. That's why the smaller the pile, the faster the harvest. If you have a big mountain, you just dump it out and just leave it. They're gonna go just a little bit in, and then you're gonna scrape off, and it's gonna take a long time for you to separate.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:27:02]:

So having the small piles, you scoop off the top and the sides of each pile. The worms are continue making their way down. Eventually, you'll have a little ball of worms in each pile. You've set up your worm bin, your new bedding ahead of time because you don't wanna stress the worms too much. Then you're gonna take those worms, add them into your new bedding, and then you'll have your black gold. You take that and use that in your gardens. If you've got existing plants, you can spread it around the the stem. Gently work it in so it's not exposed.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:27:33]:

It'll just dry out. And as you water or as it rains, the the nutrients are released and accessible to the roots. It's it's it's the castings or the compost and the roots have this symbiotic relationship, and they create a an immune system in the soil. So creating this immunity. The pass the pathogens are always present, but they can't get there. If the soil is healthy, they can't get there and and eat their roots because they're being, you know, battled off with the good. And I and I use an analogy for the students. If we have a healthy immune system, we're strong, we're doing the good things, we're healthy, we're drinking our water, good thoughts, all the good things, and we have a strong immune system, somebody next to us might be sick, and we won't get it because our immune system is so strong.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:28:29]:

Same in the soil. The pathogens are present, but they can't get there.

Tim Hughes [00:28:33]:

And and you said that there was like a there you could get one like a layered one. So if you explain to me that. Is that harvesting different then?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:28:42]:

Oh, yes. If you have a system, the harvesting is done for you. That's that's one of the beautiful benefits is you don't have to worry about moisture. It's collected, and it self harvests. So you have your one tray. When that that tray is full, you add the next tray on top with your fresh bedding, and you start adding your food in the next tray. The worms are following the food. Some will go right away, like, yay, new adventure, and they go upstairs.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:29:08]:

Some will stay and finish what's there. And so once the worms have finished downstairs, then they all make their way upstairs. You gotta make sure that there's contact because they can't jump. They just kinda squirm on up. And then you're left with the black gold. So the system for those that don't wanna be hands on with the worms. Yep. A system is ideal.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:29:30]:

Yes. Because because you're just adding your food in. You don't have to touch the worms. You don't have to even see them. Because when you open the lid, they don't like the light. They go away from the light. Bury your foods in bury your scraps in the bedding. Make sure it's covered so you don't get the fruit flies.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:29:46]:

And you keep on adding the paper, adding your food. You just keep going. And when I started my business, I was I was contacted by a woman who had been doing worm composting for 10 years. And she said, it's becoming a bit much for me. Do you want the bin? And I I didn't yeah. I said, yes. I didn't necessarily want the bin. I wanted to meet this woman.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:30:10]:

She had 10 years experience. So I she said, okay. I said, yes. So she said, okay. Let me just get the soil, and I'll get in touch. Okay. 2 weeks later, she contacted me and said, okay, I I I've, emptied the the bin. You can come and get it.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:30:26]:

She said, but the worms the worms died. Like, there was no worms. I just had the soil. So I said, okay. She said, do you still want the bin? I didn't care about the bin. I wanted to meet this lady. When I arrived at her house, she was in a wheelchair. She was probably in her late seventies, early eighties, and and I was amazed.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:30:48]:

I was like, wow. I didn't say this, but I thought, wow. Look at you in a wheelchair. You have your own challenges, and yet you care about the planet enough to have worms. And so I said, when was the last time you harvested? She didn't have a system. She got a system in in the eighties. Toronto was giving out composters. You could have a composter, or you could get a worm bin.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:31:10]:

The government was giving out worm bins. What? Wow. How advanced. Not anymore. They don't even talk about composting anymore. Can you imagine? We've gone back. Yeah. So she got this bin, and and she said I've never harvested in 10 years.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:31:26]:

She never harvested or been once. She would keep adding. Right? The worms are reducing the volume. So she would add the food on sta and the bedding on top. The worms would convert it. She would take out what she needed. Remember, she was in a wheelchair. So she would take out what she needed for her garden from the, from the compost, use it.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:31:45]:

And, so I was amazed. So when people say, how often do I have to harvest? Well, I never, apparently. You never have to, as long as you keep on adding the scraps on top and you take out the compost because it would fill up eventually. Yeah. So I, I was really quite astounded by this, this woman.

Rob Durant [00:32:07]:

Can businesses integrate vermicomposting into their waste management practices?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:32:14]:

Sure can. Sure can. And, again, back to my my beginning. When I was researching my business, I found, a very large system at Metro Hall, which is a government building in Toronto. They had a, a very large worms, worm bin, and it was high-tech. It was it was, well, at the time, a $150,000 system, probably a $1,000,000 system today. It was fully automated. It would manage 400 pounds of waste per day.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:32:45]:

It it would took all of the paper towels from this 30 30 story building, all the coffee grounds, all the, cafeteria waste, and all all the lunchroom scraps. So they had a system where they in the bathrooms, they had a separate, container for just the paper towels. And so that everybody was on board of what was happening here. It had a mister that would keep it moist. There was a rake that would rake across, and the the castings fell out of the bottom. And they would, twice a year, they had environmental days. So they would give the compost to the staff as just to let them know, hey. Here's where your banana peels from your lunch went.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:33:29]:

Go put this on your gardens. So beautiful. And I went so this system was the size of a a parking space. Maybe 2 2 parking spaces. And if that's where it was in the underground garage of this 30 story government building. And I was so impressed. It was actually managed by a woman named Robin, and I thought that was funny. Robin was watching the worms.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:33:54]:

And she gave us a private tour of of the system. Usually, it was for groups, but because we were starting a worm business, she she allowed my husband and I to go and have a look. Several years later so I met the woman, the environmental manager for that building. Well, several years. A couple years later, I gave her my card. A couple years later, that the the Toronto introduced a an organic collection program called the Green Bin. And they said, we don't we don't need this system anymore. She got in touch with me all in a panic.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:34:31]:

She said, the government, they wanna just throw this, sorry, Michigan. They wanted to send the whole system to Michigan. Like, okay, we don't need this anymore. We've got the green bin. So the system is redundant. And I was like, no, it isn't. Look at all the condos around. This is a great museum piece.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:34:49]:

So she said, I've got in touch with organizations, universities. Everybody has to have meetings. Right? They gotta decide, oh, we're gonna have board meetings. Is this a good idea? Can we get it? I said, I'm a board of 1. I'm I I want it. Yes. I'll come and get it. So I didn't get the system.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:35:05]:

It was it was there for too long. But I got all I got the grinder. I got oh my I don't know how much compost I got. I got all of the, all of the equipment, and in fact, needed to do 2 trips, and threw out the, the alignment of my friend's truck. It almost cost me 2 more money to to collect that. I was I was shocked that that they were willing to well, and they did, in fact, just close the system because they figured it wasn't needed anymore. But imagine doing this on-site rather than trucking the material away.

Bertrand Godillot [00:35:41]:

So so, Katie, all these sounds so, you know, I would say, so obvious that this is something we should be expanding rather than, you know, working away from. So so what are the obstacles from from your perspective to, really get that at scale? You know, because that sounds like, you know, really, to be honest, I didn't realize that there was a business use that there were business use cases, or at least applications for business of of of, of that approach. So what are the obstacles, and, what are you I suspect you've got a few, a few ideas on how to overcome them.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:36:28]:

The worms the worms are the big obstacle. And and I have a psych degree, so I'm I'm fascinated by people and why they do what they do. And what I've learned from exhibiting is people were traumatized as children, in the school yard by worms. After a rainy day or a sibling chased them around or maybe a fishing incident with the green goo coming out of the worms. Something might have happened. So if you were traumatized as a child, you're not looking to that as an adult as a solution. And I think that we just are looking for high-tech solutions. We're looking for something that is, well, although the system was fully automated and mechanized.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:37:11]:

We're really looking for high-tech, and the worms are low tech. They're very simple. You really don't need anything other than a container and somebody to manage them. You know, that's the other box in your job description. There were you know, about the business course, model, for 15 years, a hospital in Lindsay, Ontario had a large they had 30 bins. It wasn't automated at all. It was the housekeeping person's job to manage the worms. And he just got in touch with me.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:37:46]:

He just, they just closed the system because they got a new COO and she said the worms gotta go. It depends. So it's the peep what is the biggest obstacle? It's the person in charge. That's the biggest obstacle. And their their belief about worms, or their fear of worms, or whatever they think about worms. Worm worm is a bad word. So worms have energy, and and worm seems to be like parasites are worms, computer computer viruses are worms. Worm is just like a earworm is a bad thing.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:38:19]:

Can of worms. You now you've opened a can of worms. I always go, yay, can of worms. But I know it's usually then I go, I know it's a bad thing. Sorry.

Rob Durant [00:38:29]:

So, you know, we need need a better PR agent.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:38:32]:

Yeah. Exact that's it. You know, we're we we get all hung up on what we know and or what we think we know. And, yeah, it's it's really I I don't know what I don't I you said I I have an idea. I I really don't. 20 years in, and I still am not sure how to get past the barrier.

Bertrand Godillot [00:38:53]:

So it's it's about getting over our fears then.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:38:56]:

It is.

Bertrand Godillot [00:38:56]:

Mainly. Okay.

Tim Hughes [00:38:58]:

Well, that

Kathy Nesbitt [00:38:59]:

And that's why I do school workshops. That's why I start with the kids. That that's why I do the school workshops. Over 75,000 students have seen my presentation. And educating the kids, I've had the privilege being in business business for 22 years of meeting students, former students that I went to their grade 3 class, and now they've graduated from from university, and they meet me at at events, and they'll come up and they'll say, Kathy, you came into my grade 3 class because we had worms in the class or because of me, whatever they say. I went to university for environmental studies, and now I'm an environmental lawyer. Wow. Like, that's a huge impact.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:39:42]:

We never know. We're make Right? We're making an impact every day. Whenever we do something, we're making an impact. We don't always have the privilege of knowing.

Rob Durant [00:39:53]:

What are some common mistakes beginners make with vermicomposting?

Bertrand Godillot [00:39:59]:

I've heard of you.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:40:00]:

I've heard of you this. Yeah.

Rob Durant [00:40:03]:

I'm sorry. Let me direct that somewhere else.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:40:09]:

Some of the things, you know, when people hear that they eat half their weight, they throw in the food. They keep on throwing in the food without looking at the system. So yes, they do eat half their weight per day, and they need to get established first. So you need to make sure that the all the microbes are working. The worms are the top predator in the worm bin. So there's springtails and mites and all kinds of micro microbes that are doing the work. They're doing the heavy lifting. The worms are just the cleanup crew.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:40:39]:

So we're adding the microbes into our system with the soil and just a little bit of soil. So a few things that people do, because they're worms, they often think that they need to add a lot of soil in. So sometimes people will add, like when I go and do inspections on their bin, their whole bin is just full of soil. So there's nothing else in there. The worms are the soil makers, so we only need, like, a scoop of soil, like a, you know, a a cup of soil or a couple of cups of soil. That's all we add. And it needs to be not potting soil, not soil that's in a bag, because if it's in a bag, it's sterilized and the microbes have been destroyed. You want soil from outside, from nature, somewhere that no chemicals have been applied.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:41:24]:

So that's one thing. Sometimes there's either too much soil or no soil. The incorrect soil, just potting soil that's been sterilized so there's no bugs. Too much food, not enough food. Maybe no, like, there's so there's many, many things that can go, wrong. But once you get it, it's it's magic. It's it really is like an incredible. It's nature's magic show where they're converting this stuff, and and it goes so quick.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:41:56]:

Once your worms are established and everything's happening, you add your stuff in there, and wow. And I've grown the most amazing things, you know, I was I had some dates, and they had the pits in them. And one day, I just stuffed it in my in my bin. I like, oh, I wonder. Who knows? And I was I was at an event, I don't even know how much time it was, months later. And I was showing somebody, oh, here's what the worms so you start like this, and I had a bin with the shredded paper, and then you end like this, showing them the finished one that had the worms in it. When I pulled back the bedding, I found this little thing growing. I said, wow, what's this? And I pulled it out.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:42:38]:

I started I I scared the people away because I was like, wow. What is this? Oh, no. No. No. No. And they were like, oh, she's she's cuckoo. So it was my my my date pit had started to I was growing a palm tree in my worm bin. Wow.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:42:53]:

I was I was I was shocked. I was I was amazed. Yeah. Could I grow a palm tree in Canada? Probably not. Not yet. But same will happen with, avocado pits. Mango pits will start to germinate. So it's it's incredible when you have nutrient rich soil, magic happens.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:43:13]:

Nothing to be done. I'm I'm not, I'm not a great gardener. I'm a soil maker. So my soil, and that's that's the key to being a great gardener is to have great soil. Start with with the foundation. Good soil, the soil will look after the plants, nothing to be done. And and adding compost is the answer to any issue with your soil. If your soil is too acidic, add compost.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:43:38]:

If your soil is too alkaline, add compost. It really, it's the great mitigator. It fixes everything.

Rob Durant [00:43:47]:

Do pets and indoor bins go together?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:43:53]:

They do. The the bin has a lid on it. So your cat can sit on top of the worm bin and be the worm behind it. And and dogs. And dogs. Yes. Dogs can sit on there too. And, you know, the the I used to think that the lid was a psychological barrier because the worms can get out of any hole.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:44:12]:

They don't have bone. So if the conditions are not right in the bin, they're gonna crawl out of the bin. And don't freak out anybody, because they're not gonna get out if you're treating them right. They're they're eating half their weight. They don't have eyes. No point in going sightseeing. They can't see. So if they crawl out of your bin, it's that conditions are, like, too acidic, too wet, too dry.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:44:33]:

Something is happening in the bin. So for the for the lid, I I used to think, yeah, you don't really need a lid, because they can get out of any hole. But the lid keeps the moisture in. It keeps it dark. The worms like it dark. So so if you have a lid on your bin, you can keep your bin anywhere. And and for the bin, you wanna have a dark bin. You don't wanna have a bin that has, like a an opaque bin.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:45:00]:

You know, like an ant farm. Teachers will ask me, can I just have this in a, like a fish tank? And so the students can watch. Yes, you can, but the worms will be in the center. You won't be able to watch them unless you have it covered like you have a, you know, maybe a curtain on it or something. And then you pull the curtain aside, then then they'd be able to watch for a little bit.

Tim Hughes [00:45:26]:

So what do you think, Bertram? You're gonna do it? You're gonna try for a 4th time?

Bertrand Godillot [00:45:30]:

Exactly. You know, that's, you know, I'm I'm just, I I can't, you know, I can't accept the fact that that this is a that this is not working. So so there's definitely, temperature is an issue. But, I'll give it another try. Katie, I think you, you convinced me to, to go for 1 more.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:45:54]:

I have a warm hotline, so you can just call me or send me a note.

Bertrand Godillot [00:45:57]:

I'll definitely I'll definitely hear you.

Tim Hughes [00:45:59]:

100 warm.

Bertrand Godillot [00:46:06]:

And I can confirm everything that that Katie said. You know, they are not going I I add I add the worms inside. I add them outside. They are not going anywhere else. There's nothing to be scared of. That's, clear.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:46:20]:

And the compost

Bertrand Godillot [00:46:21]:

idea about rinsing the the the the, the fruits that we don't usually rinse or, so that the peelings are are clean from the, the fruit flies. That's that's into another very good tip.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:46:36]:

And, Rob, you you asked about, things that can go wrong. With, with the chemicals that we're applying to our crops today, if people are eating organic, they're more or less likely to have that this challenge. But with with conventional crops, there's still the there still may be the residue from the pesticide on the peels. And today, the the the chemicals that we're using are very resilient. They don't wash off in the rain. They're not designed to wash off. So they that means they don't wash off when we wash them just with water. Like people think, oh, I'm washing my, my, my potatoes or whatever.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:47:17]:

If you're just washing it with water, the chemical well, potatoes grow into the ground, so I don't know why I said potatoes. Yeah. But you know what I mean? So that so sometimes people will call me and they'll say my worms have been doing great, and something just happened. They just all died. So then I walk them back. What was the last thing you added in? Okay. Before that. And I try and figure out it's Mhmm.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:47:41]:

It I feel like a detective in trying to figure out I really wanna know, and I wanna help people because there is a reason. Something did happen. And when things happen, they go fast because the worms are sentient creatures. They're just in this this environment. And I I believe that the worms are like the canary in the coal mine. When we have no more worms, we're doomed, because they're the soil makers. And not to be a doomsday person, but I, you know, I think that this is a solution, and we need to all be looking after our food waste. It's something we can all do.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:48:15]:

We all eat. So it's really something we can all do. Grow a little bit of food, because when you grow your own food, you're not wasting it. Yeah. It's so, yeah, Bertrand, I'm here for you.

Bertrand Godillot [00:48:29]:

Okay. Thanks. Thanks, Katie. Yeah.

Rob Durant [00:48:31]:

Now, Kathy, when you introduced yourself, you mentioned something about laughter and humor as well. Tell us what you mean by that.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:48:40]:

Yeah. So I'm also a laughter yoga teacher, and laughter yoga

Rob Durant [00:48:45]:

I wanna make sure I heard that right. A laughter yoga teacher?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:48:49]:

Yes.

Rob Durant [00:48:50]:

Okay. Tell us all about that.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:48:53]:

So it's not doing yoga and laughing. It's laughing as an exercise. It's a cardiovascular workout. When we're laughing, we're totally present. We're secreting the love drugs, dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphins. We're not we can't be laughter is the opposite of stress. So we can't be in we can't be laughing and stressed at the same moment. And and why I started laughter in 2012, 10 years into my worm mission, one more person said, ew, worms in the house.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:49:25]:

I'd heard it hundreds of times before, but I wasn't listening. I was like, no, no, no. This is important. You need this. But people don't buy what they need. So in 2012, I questioned everything. I felt it. I heard it.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:49:38]:

I was like, wow. How am I gonna do this? This is too hard. And the very next day, I was introduced to laughter yoga, and it changed my life. It allowed me not to take personal when people said ewwworms in the house. They weren't saying, eww, Kathy, you're gross. They might have been, but it was, like, more what you're offering, I'm not interested in. And at that and it's a huge distinction for anybody that's in business thinking, oh my gosh. Why don't people want what I have? Maybe it's that maybe it's what you have and not you.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:50:10]:

And so that so now I'm I've been laughing since 2012, really laughing since 2020 when the world shut down. And I really want people to care about the planet, but when you're in a mental crisis, it's not possible. So my goal now is to help people get out of stress so they can get worms and care about the planet. Thank you for asking about that. Thank you.

Rob Durant [00:50:34]:

Absolutely. You're so you're taking a a different set of waste and converting that. All the stress and so on. And

Kathy Nesbitt [00:50:41]:

Yes. I'm thank you. Yes. I'm transforming people's stress into joy, and it's just an energy. It's a frequency. That's it. When we're feeling sad, anxious, depressed, frustrated, any of those, we're vibrating at a low level. So this helps us just it frees us.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:51:00]:

And English is so interesting. I'm gonna say a couple of sentences, and I'll break it down. So no no no laughter, no problem. No laughter, no problem. So n o laughter, k n o w problem. K n o w laughter, n o problem. And it's not so no laughter, like, if we're not laughing, we gotta we gotta talk about our problem. If we know laughter, we're laughing.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:51:27]:

It frees us up because when we're stressed, we're not breathing properly. Our brain is not getting oxygen. So ever lost your keys and you're flapping around? You, gotta go. I can't find my keys. Your keys are right there, but your brain is literally being deprived of oxygen. So when we're laughing, our brain is oxygenated, and we can come up with more solutions, because we're not stressed. We're freed. We're freed up, and and and solutions can pour in.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:51:56]:

And back to the corporation, laughter is needed in corporate today. It's great for team building. People are stressed. They don't wanna be in the office, or they do. Or and we've been isolated. We're isolated for a long time. And when we're isolated, that's when when fear comes in. We just have the voice in our head that confirms that we're not enough.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:52:21]:

So the the, you know, thank you. The laughter just helps us to to just be present so we can come up with with better ideas.

Bertrand Godillot [00:52:31]:

I definitely buy this. Nope.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:52:36]:

Kathy, let's tie this

Bertrand Godillot [00:52:37]:

all together.

Rob Durant [00:52:39]:

If there's one idea you want people walking away from today, how would you summarize that? What what do you want us to think about? What do you want us to know? What do you want us to do?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:52:51]:

I want to thank you. I want people to live their life for them. I I want them to be themself. We're we're living with somebody else's guidebook. Our parents wanted us to do something, or other people have all these societal the structure and this this this rigid I don't know what it is, and and it's really hard living by somebody else's rules because it might not be what we wanna do. We have one life to live. I think that we need to start playing a lead role in our own life instead of, you know, a supporting role. I I I want people to just be more joyful.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:53:35]:

So one way is I have a free Tuesday laughter club online, every Tuesday, 9:30 AM EST, 30 minutes of super fun self care. I incorporate tapping, chi kong, brain gym, just to help people get out of stress and into joy. There's no no pressure. Come experience the magic. I don't follow-up. If you sign up and don't come, I don't chase you. Yeah. I just want people to to live more authentically and and more joyfully.

Kathy Nesbitt [00:54:10]:

It's our birthright. I I believe it's it's our birthright to be in joy. When we're resisting, that's fine. But that maybe not right now, that thing. Maybe just put that over there for now and see what is for you right now.

Rob Durant [00:54:25]:

Kathy, this has been great. Where can people learn more about you? How can they get in touch with you?

Kathy Nesbitt [00:54:31]:

Well, if they wanna know more more about the worms, my website is kathyscomposters.com. Kathy with a c. And if they wanna know about the laughter, it's kathysclub.com. Kathy with a c. And to register for the club, it's just at the top of my laughter page.

Rob Durant [00:54:47]:

Fantastic. We now have a newsletter. Don't miss an episode, get show highlights, beyond the show insights, and reminders of upcoming episodes. You can scan the QR code on screen or visit us at digital download dot live forward slash newsletter. On behalf of the panelists, to our guests, to our audience, thank you all for being a part of this week's episode, and we'll see you next time on the digital download.

Tim Hughes [00:55:19]:

Thanks, Kathy.

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