Overcome Imposter Syndrome and Multiply Your Leadership Impact, with Special Guest Flo LaBrado

This week on The Digital Download, we’re tackling the challenges of imposter syndrome and how overcoming it can significantly enhance your leadership impact. Flo LaBrado, Founder of Olive and Grace Leadership Coaching, will share her insights from her recent Brainz. magazine article "Multiply Your Leadership Impact With Self-Efficacy". Flo will show us how to transform self-doubt into a powerful leadership asset, helping you lead with greater confidence and purpose.

Join us as we ask questions like:

* What is meant by self-efficacy?

* How does self-efficacy influence leadership effectiveness?

* What strategies can leaders use to build self-efficacy?

* Why is overcoming imposter syndrome crucial for long-term success?

Flo’s approach to leadership coaching blends practical experience with a deep understanding of leadership psychology, offering valuable insights for anyone looking to lead more effectively with greater confidence and purpose.

We strive to make The Digital Download an interactive experience. Bring your questions. Bring your insights. Audience participation is highly encouraged!

This week we were joined by our Special Guest -

• Flo LaBrado, Founder of Olive and Grace Leadership Coaching

This week's Host was -

• Rob Durant, Founder of Flywheel Results, a proud DLA Ignite partner

Panelists included -

• Tim Hughes, CEO & Co-founder of a DLA Ignite,

• Adam Gray, Co-founder of a DLA Ignite

• Tracy Borreson, Founder and CEO of TLB Coaching & Events, a proud DLA Ignite partner, and

• Bertrand Godillot, Managing Partner, Odysseus & Co, a proud DLA Ignite partner

Transcript of The Digital Download 2024-09-06

Rob Durant [00:00:02]:

Good morning, good afternoon, and good day wherever you may be joining us from. Welcome to another edition of The Digital Download, the longest running weekly business talk show on LinkedIn Live. Now globally syndicated on TuneIn Radio through IVGR, the world's number one business talk, news, and strategy radio network. Today, we're discussing how to overcome imposter syndrome and multiply your leadership impact.

We have a special guest, Flo Librado, to help us with the discussion. Founder of Olive and Grace Leadership Coaching, Flo will share her insights from her recent Brains Magazine article, "Multiply Your Leadership Impact with Self Efficacy". We will leave a link to that article in the show transcript following today's episode. But before we bring Flo on, let's go around the set and introduce everyone.

Rob Durant [00:01:06]:

While we're doing that, why don't you in the audience reach out to a friend, ping them, and have them join us? We strive to make the digital download an interactive experience. Audience participation is highly encouraged. Okay. With that, Tim, would you kick us off, please?

Tim Hughes [00:01:27]:

Welcome, everybody. And it's fantastic to be back, after the short summer break. Amazing to be, back with so many people, and talking to so so many great guests. My name is Tim Hughes, and, I'm the CEO and cofounder of DLA Knight, and I'm famous for writing the book, Special Selling Techniques to Influence, Parts, and Change Matters.

Rob Durant [00:01:51]:

Excellent. Thank you very much. Adam, good morning, good afternoon, and welcome.

Adam Gray [00:01:58]:

Thank you, Rob. It's lovely to be back out. So as Tim said, after the after the summer break, feels like a new school year, doesn't it? Hi, everyone. I'm Adam Gray. I'm Tim's business partner and cofounder at DLA at night. And I'm very excited about getting back in the saddle for for this semester.

Rob Durant [00:02:18]:

Excellent. Thank you. Bertrand, welcome.

Bertrand Godillot [00:02:22]:

Yes. Good morning, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Bertrand Godillot. I am the managing partner of Adisios and Co, a very proud DLA Ignite partner here in France and the south of Europe. Very excited to be back as well, especially and very glad it's Friday.

Rob Durant [00:02:46]:

Amen to that. Excellent. Thank you. And, Tracy, good morning. Welcome.

Tracy Borreson [00:02:52]:

Good morning, everybody. I too am excited to be back and excited that my headphones match Tim's shirt. That's very exciting. I am Tracy Borysen, founder of TLB Coaching and Events, where we're all about marketing being a revenue engine and not a cost center because that's dumb. I too am a proud DLA Ignite partner, and I have all of the thoughts on imposter syndrome. So I'm super excited for this conversation.

Rob Durant [00:03:18]:

Excellent. I'm just going to sit back and let you take it from here.

Tracy Borreson [00:03:23]:

Well, I need hear from your Someone's gotta bring flow into the room. That's your job.

Rob Durant [00:03:27]:

This is true. We'll we'll get flow. Okay. Good morning, good afternoon, good day, everyone. I'm Rob Durant. I am the founder of Flywheel Results. I too am a proud DLA Ignite partner, and I'm excited for this new season of the digital download. We have some tremendous guests lined up for the fall season, and it starts with our first guest.

Rob Durant [00:03:53]:

As I said, this week on the digital download, we'll speak with Flo Librato. Flo's approach to leadership coaching lends practical experience with a deep understanding of leadership psychology, offering valuable insights for anyone looking to lead more effectively with greater confidence and purpose. Let's bring her on. Hello. Good morning and welcome.

Flo LaBrado [00:04:20]:

Hi, Flo. So happy to be here Welcome, Flo. Everyone.

Rob Durant [00:04:25]:

Flo, let's start by having you tell us a little bit more about you, your background, and what led you to where you are today.

Flo LaBrado [00:04:33]:

Oh, happy to. I am, my my background is interesting. I studied art. I studied psychology. I studied leadership management, organizational development while working many, many years in telecommunications, and thought, what how are all of these different things related? And then it dawned on me that I enjoy technology so much, and I still serve as a senior manager in a telecommunications company. But I'm 51% more about people and technology, and I realized, oh, it's coaching. This is my jam. So, as a result, I, you know, just started, Olive and Grace Leadership Coaching, and what I care about, as you shared, is people leading with integrity and purpose, and I love this work.

Rob Durant [00:05:19]:

That's fantastic. Thank you very much for sharing that. Flo, I wanna start with a foundational question. What exactly is self efficacy, and how does that differ from self confidence?

Flo LaBrado [00:05:34]:

That's a good question, because self efficacy, efficacy and confidence are definitely related, but they're not the same. I think of them as cousins. So if you think of like a timeline, confidence is when we are able to look back and see that we have skills, experience, we have been successful in some areas, and by looking back, we can realize that, oh, this means that I can be confident, I can be sure that in the future, I can do the same thing again. So, if I can bench press so many pounds in the past, then I have reason to be sure that I can do it again in the future. So that's rear looking, which is great. Confidence is wonderful, and at times, everyone doubts, but confidence is definitely helpful. However, self efficacy is forward thinking. Self efficacy is more related to positive psychology, the study of human flourishing.

Flo LaBrado [00:06:27]:

So self efficacy doesn't only look at the past, but it is a optimistic outlook that we can use whatever skills, or intuition, or experience we have, and have self assurance in our capacity to learn to also be successful in the future, even if we don't have the firm evidence that confidence provides us.

Rob Durant [00:06:49]:

So talk to us then a little bit about imposter syndrome. That seems Oh. The complete opposite.

Flo LaBrado [00:06:57]:

Complete opposite. And I wanna start with that. Imposter syndrome, I believe, happens at some point to probably 99% of people. I can think of a few exceptions, maybe with a personality disorder here or there, where imposter syndrome is a non issue. But when we think about, their think of individuals, and this may have happened to anyone who's here on listening or any of us. Right? That we have studied, we have prepared, we have experience. Maybe we've even been successful in the past, maybe even high achieving, and still question, wait, did I really do that? Do I really have those skills? Can I really do this again? And even though evidence tells us that we are equipped and skilled and able, we still question. And so, that gap right there between what we believe that we're supposed to do and what we think we cannot do is imposter syndrome.

Flo LaBrado [00:07:56]:

So it's like walking around, sitting in a room, and thinking, oh my goodness, people might think I'm a fraud, or people probably think I'm more skilled than I am. That right there makes us feel like we're cosplaying as someone who is able to do the job.

Rob Durant [00:08:13]:

I love how you put that, cosplaying.

Adam Gray [00:08:16]:

Is isn't that a a basic human trait if you like? Like, actually, I'm not a very nice person. People only think I'm nice because they don't really know who I am kind of thing. And most people feel that at some point and in some situations. And I know that, you know, Tim and I have, have delivered 100 of seminars and keynotes and training sessions. And both of us, every time before we get up on stage, whether that's a physical stage or a virtual stage, you feel butterflies and you think, oh god. And I've done this exactly this 50 times, but maybe this time it's all gonna go wrong. Maybe the audience won't like it. Maybe and and isn't that part of the the kind of the nerves that drive you to do your best? Or isn't that a good thing rather than a bad thing?

Flo LaBrado [00:09:01]:

Absolutely. And, Adam Grant has talked a lot about this, especially in his last book, Hidden Potential, about how imposter syndrome itself is not terrible. It's not a terrible thing. We experience it. I I cannot imagine, speaking in front of a bunch of people and not feeling my knees shake a little bit. Even preparing for this, I thought this week, man, I'm going on the digital download to talk about imposter syndrome, and I'm imposter syndrome about doing this. Talk about meta imposter syndrome. Right? But but it is it is healthy to have a little bit of grounded confidence, meaning that we're prepared with the skills that we have and the experience, and we've done this before.

Flo LaBrado [00:09:43]:

Right? Not perfect, and there may be room for mistakes or missteps. And that is normal. That is perfectly normal. Because if not, we might get comfortable and not continue to grow. And then we might shift into survival mode instead of thriving. However, imposter syndrome can become detrimental. It can become really painful when there is a perceived a significantly, like, gap. Right? And then what at least is just wondering, oh, my gosh, what if one day they discover that they hired the wrong person? Or what if this is the day that I go to deliver a keynote and I trip? And once it becomes psychologically detrimental, then that not only impacts our self efficacy, it impacts our self confidence, and it also becomes a self fulfilling prophecy in that it impacts our ability to perform.

Flo LaBrado [00:10:35]:

Does that make sense?

Adam Gray [00:10:37]:

Perfectly.

Tracy Borreson [00:10:38]:

Yeah. Okay. Okay. I wanna jump in with I have, like, all of the thoughts. Flo knows me, so it's fine.

Adam Gray [00:10:47]:

She was probably.

Tracy Borreson [00:10:50]:

Okay. So I'm all about authenticity, and I have this. I have a theory about the concept of imposter syndrome, which I see as different than self doubt. So what I'm hearing right now is a lot of similarities between imposter syndrome and self doubt. And from an authenticity point of view, I want to I'm agreeing with all we're saying. I believe everyone will experience self doubt. We're gonna go to a new manager or position. We've never been a manager before.

Tracy Borreson [00:11:19]:

We're probably gonna doubt that we can be successful at that. I think self doubt is very normal. I think we've, like, as a society mangled this concept of self doubt into imposter syndrome, and it makes me experiences it. If you're trying to be someone else, aka you are being an imposter, then you will experience imposter syndrome because you're not trying to be yourself. You're trying to be something else you think you should be. And I if so I'd love to hear Flo. Like, I experience the difference between those things. I have self doubt because I'm not sure that I can do a b c.

Tracy Borreson [00:12:03]:

I experience imposter syndrome because I'm trying to be someone else. I'm trying to do that how someone else would do it. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Flo LaBrado [00:12:12]:

I am so glad that you touched on that because one of the first strategy the very first strategy that I talk about in the article to build that self efficacy is to develop your own compass. And what I mean by your compass is get very, really clear about the things that are important to you. I need to be clear about the things that are important to me and who I am as a person. And what I, combine as the compass is I think of 3 elements. 1, is understanding what are your core values? What is most important to you as a human being? Not as a parent, as a business professional, as a leader, as a soccer coach, as a friend, whatever it is. Transcending all areas of your life. What is most important to you as a human? What is most important to me? So that's your core values. And the second thing is to be aware of when it comes to work, what do I need from work? What are the work values that are most important to me? And that changes depending on the different stages in life.

Flo LaBrado [00:13:06]:

Right? Me, you know, I'm gonna date myself here. Me, 20, 25 years ago, I was probably more motivated by money because I suddenly had a mortgage and, you know, it doesn't pay itself. And today, I'm more motivated by purpose and work life harmony. And so it's important to know what our work what our values are and our work values. And the third thing is to know what are our strengths. What are what am I good at? So that I can know what are the talents that I have that I can bring. And then combining those 3, my core values, my work values, and my strengths, serves as a compass and a place for grounded confidence for authenticity. If not, then if I am cosplaying to think, oh, this person values competition, and I don't, but competition is rewarded.

Flo LaBrado [00:13:50]:

So let me act as if I value competition, then I'm always going to feel like an imposter because I'm literally cosplaying someone else. You are so on point.

Tracy Borreson [00:14:00]:

Well and I think that's the interesting thing about it. And there there's a little bit of not a little bit. Probably a lot of self awareness that goes into the capacity to say, like, I'm showing up waving at Andrew because it's a little bit. That I'm showing up as myself or I'm showing up you gave a great example of of valuing competition when I don't value competition, and being able to realize that, like, wow. That's not my value. I'm doing that because I think that will be rewarded here, but this is also probably one of the reasons why I'm feeling like an imposter because I am.

Flo LaBrado [00:14:40]:

Absolutely. And And not in

Tracy Borreson [00:14:41]:

a bad way, but it's just like it it's it's not being yourself.

Flo LaBrado [00:14:46]:

Exactly. And I think there are, there are multiple factors that can influence that. Right? One, you know, it could be, frankly, that I don't have the skills to do what I need to do. Maybe I don't quite have the competence, and at that point, there could be an element of imposter syndrome if someone oversells themselves. Let's set that aside. Right? That's a possibility. It could also be though that there is almost this unstated common understanding of what, the shared understanding of a mental prototype of what the person is supposed to look and be and sound like in that job. Right? So, and if I don't fit that, I might feel like I'm an imposter, because I'm trying to approximate that prototype, even though that prototype is not authentically me.

Flo LaBrado [00:15:32]:

And furthermore, by using so much cognitive and emotional energy on trying to approximate that prototype, which doesn't come naturally to me, I therefore have less emotional and cognitive energy to be effective at whatever it is that I'm supposed to do. And, again, it becomes a self fulfilling spiral.

Rob Durant [00:15:53]:

I love how you talk about that. It reminds me of why I don't like the term personal brand, and I prefer personality. I'm not trying to fit a prototype. I'm just trying to be me, and it's a lot easier to be me than the best approximation of perfect me.

Flo LaBrado [00:16:17]:

That's a word. That that is a word. And I I do talk about personal brands. I actually just did a talk at an organization last week around career development and touched on personal brand. I think there's a really big difference between I mean, when we define personal brand is I want to show the world who I am versus I want to become an approximation of what I think everyone else wants me to be so that I can

Tracy Borreson [00:16:44]:

Which is what a lot of personal brand coaches want to sell you.

Rob Durant [00:16:48]:

Exactly. Exactly.

Flo LaBrado [00:16:50]:

That's exhausting. That is exhausting. So, like, all of these things, there are those social impacts. There are their shared understanding in the culture and the group. And you can feel it when you walk in the group in the room, whether, you feel there is, who is the person who is the most senior or the most leader in the room, or who has the most expertise. And we do have we do have a biological social need to be part of the in group. Right? But when that comes at the expense of our own authenticity, then it's harder to have that self efficacy. It's harder to feel that that we can be successful in the future because we're spending so much energy being someone else.

Flo LaBrado [00:17:29]:

And that is it doesn't go well. It doesn't go well.

Bertrand Godillot [00:17:34]:

So just to follow, how much of this is actually preventing people to change or to embrace new opportunities or new new areas? And how can we make them feel safe in doing this somehow? Is is there a role? Because I understand there is a role. There's part of that is about who you are and not trying to be somebody else. But how much can you, apart from getting this confidence, what can the others do to help you get there, basically?

Flo LaBrado [00:18:18]:

That is a good question. And wouldn't it be nice if we had, like, a crystal ball that we can see into the future and see? Oh, can we can I do that? Okay. Then I'll go ahead and do that. But there is a gap, right, between a leap of faith that that we need to take between what am I good at, what can I do, what do I need to do, and getting there? And that space of discomfort is basically unavoidable. We can stay comfortable. Right? And avoid avoid all kinds of, you know, discomfort and and just continue to do the things that we are a 100% confident we're good at, but then we won't be able to grow. However, everyone around us can also help make it okay. Make it okay to make mistakes, make it okay to goof, and not make it so personally costly, and that will allow people to step out and practice that self efficacy.

Rob Durant [00:19:10]:

I wanna invite the audience to, contribute some questions. We have Andrew in the audience. First, let's all wave. Good morning, Andrew.

Bertrand Godillot [00:19:19]:

Yeah.

Tracy Borreson [00:19:19]:

Good morning, Andrew.

Rob Durant [00:19:20]:

Hi, Andrew. Andrew asks a great question. Andrew Slesser asks, why is it we feel more like an impostor with the more experience we gain? Good question.

Flo LaBrado [00:19:33]:

That is that is a really good question. And, I think that, you know, popular psychology, we tend to think of imposter syndrome is when we feel just only when we feel less confident, or when we've experienced doubt. Right? But the there is a lot of evidence that high achievers and the more we progress and grow and grow and, achieve our goals, that imposter syndrome doesn't go away. Because there's still that sense of we tend to question, did I really earn this? Did I really achieve this? Did I really complete this? And as a result, all of that self doubt just continues to grow as we continue to grow our skill sets. So, yeah, sometimes the more experience we gain, the more we feel like an imposter. I joke around about cosplaying as an adult because I I I I sometimes I don't know. There's so many things going on. Like, how do I hold it all together? Right? But I'm obviously a functioning successful adult, but I still have my moments when I experience that doubt and I question, am I really supposed to be this responsible? Yes.

Flo LaBrado [00:20:38]:

I am, and I already am, and that's okay. But, you know, it's okay to have those moments of doubt. But it does help, you know, to be surrounded by people that can remind us in those moments that we're doing a good job, that, yes, we earned and achieved our accomplishments.

Rob Durant [00:20:54]:

Let's turn our focus to leadership. You mentioned, Compass. What other strategies can leaders use to overcome imposter syndrome and to build more self efficacy?

Flo LaBrado [00:21:10]:

Oh, man. This is a tough one because if you look at, research and and even just our professional experience over the last, you know, say, from 5 years ago to maybe the the mid eighties, the expectation is that leadership came with a presence. That when a leader walks in the room, everyone knows who the leader is. And, you know, many of us probably professionally grew up seeing hierarchical organizations with like 10, 12 layers, in which the higher someone is in the organization, the more leadership presence that they have. Right? But there is a shift in values, and what research is showing is that, and Tracy, you're gonna love this, is that even more important than executive presence, or that leadership presence, or the I'm in charge presence, what people want is authenticity. They want that more than ever. So what does that mean? That tells us that to be effective leaders, whether it is an emerging leader without direct reports yet, or a frontline manager, or an executive leader, that to be an effective leader, you have to have, yes, that confidence and awareness of achievements and skills and experience and competence. Also, that self efficacy, that positive forward looking perspective that, yes, I can, I can lead effectively? My team can innovate.

Flo LaBrado [00:22:31]:

I can grow. I can show up. But also, the authenticity. To even admit the times, like, hey. You know what? Sometimes I question myself, and that's okay. And people will value that and trust authentic leadership in that way a lot more than the persona that used to be expected of, like, I know everything, I have all the answers, so look at me because I'm the boss.

Rob Durant [00:22:53]:

Well, I think great question from the audience. I wanna bring that up. I'm going to butcher it, and I apologize in advance. Amrit Aujla asks, what is the best way to prepare for a public speaking moment? Great question.

Flo LaBrado [00:23:10]:

I actually wanna defer to everyone else here first on this one.

Tracy Borreson [00:23:17]:

I would say it depends on who you are because I have a super initial answer. But, I mean, here's the thing. There's lots of information that you can find on the Internet about how to prepare for public speaking. And, personally, I've been a Toastmaster. Right? So that was something that I did. I thought that was very helpful from a public speaking confidence building perspective. But even within, like, the Toastmasters program, every different speaker had a different way of preparing for speaking. Some people like to rehearse.

Tracy Borreson [00:23:52]:

Personally, I hate that. I hate feeling like I have to follow a script because then I get more concerned about the script than actually connecting with the audience and things like that, but that's not the right thing for all people. So my advice would be to, like, try on some advice. See what other people do. Try it on for yourself. Maybe it works for you. Awesome. If it doesn't work for you, that doesn't mean that you're a bad public speaker or you need to change something about yourself in order to make that advice work for you.

Tracy Borreson [00:24:22]:

It just means that something else will work for you. Anyway, that's my point.

Rob Durant [00:24:29]:

I would say control the controllable. Yeah. You know what you know. Be confident in that and let a lot of the other things go. Early on, I used to try and memorize what I was going to say. That did not allow for my personal style, which is, well, casual is a polite way of describing my style, definitely off the cuff. So lean into your style. If memorizing something and and getting it perfect is your style, well then, yes, do that, but don't do that if that's not authentic to you.

Adam Gray [00:25:09]:

You have to rehearse. So Yes. It doesn't mean it doesn't mean you have to learn a script, but you have to rehearse. My guitar teacher said, you need to rehearse every part of the performance, including the performance. So Tracy going to Toastmasters is brilliant. Nothing nothing terrifies you more than the first time you stand up on stage to speak to people. So talk to a safe audience. Talk to your team at work.

Adam Gray [00:25:32]:

Talk to your partner. Talk to your family. Talk to anyone that will listen to you to give you experience of speaking to people within the audience. And, yeah, you need the spontaneity. So you don't learn the words, but you must practice what you're doing. And you need to think about your hand gestures and where you're standing on the stage because all of that can paint a picture. But when you get it right, it's great because you can go up there and enjoy the moment. And I I think that the the the other thing is that your terror of standing up on stage, so for many people it is terror.

Adam Gray [00:26:07]:

Your terror of standing up on stage reaches a crescendo just before you begin to talk. And taking a couple of deep breaths helps just to take the edge off that so you can then give of your best.

Rob Durant [00:26:24]:

And Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:26:25]:

At the end of the day, the thing to remember is that the audience do not want you to fail. Even though you think they're standing there with daggers ready to jump onto the stage, they want you to succeed. They want you to do a good job because they want to be entertained.

Bertrand Godillot [00:26:36]:

Yep. That's a very fair point to them. But I I I'll I'll,

Rob Durant [00:26:41]:

you know,

Bertrand Godillot [00:26:41]:

my my my 2¢ on this is because you tend to be a bit, how can I say that? Not not really stressed, but there's a bit of adrenaline going on before you get on stage. And to get things started properly, I confess I would probably have in mind my first 2 or 3 sentences. Rehearsal is part of is is is definitely what you're what you're talking about, but also, you know, just pitching it also because I'm not I'm not English native. So that's when I do that in English, you know, that requires me to have the right the right words or at least the ones I want to express. My 2 statements and breathing and all this stuff, I fully agree.

Tracy Borreson [00:27:36]:

Don't forget to breathe. Yes.

Flo LaBrado [00:27:39]:

Breathing is good.

Tracy Borreson [00:27:44]:

I think, one of the things that I was thinking with, like, kind of all of these things from the public speaking to the leadership and imposter syndrome, I think a lot of the time and with Andrea's question too about how the more experience we gain, the more we might doubt ourselves even though we have more evidence. Is this because we're spending too much time not in the present? Because I feel like, personally, if I look at my most effective leadership moments, it's when I'm just in the present with my team, being with them, solving problems. I'm not worrying about what's gonna happen in the future. I'm not worried about what happened in the past. We're just here together doing stuff. And I feel like that's the my most effective. But I also feel like when we're we're having anxiety or imposter syndrome or self doubt or any of these other things, it's because we've taken ourselves out of the present moment into the past or into the future. So is that also part of the journey is to explore how much time we're spending not in the present moment?

Flo LaBrado [00:28:51]:

I I think that's an excellent point that you bring up. And I want to I want us to think about embodiment. And the how important this also ties back to the question about public speaking. Nerves take over, whether it is, you know, nerves before, you know, delivering a keynote or even an event like this, or nerves about pitching something in a meeting when, we know that it may be controversial. Whatever it is, there may be nerves. It could also be a simple conversation, a simple coaching conversation that may feel like we're not completely present, because we're trying we're pretending to be time travelers. I said, we can go in the past and fix what happened, or go into the future and prefix what might go wrong. And having that that mindfulness and embodying each moment makes a difference.

Flo LaBrado [00:29:43]:

And here's what I mean by embodiment. It is being very aware, not only of our emotions, not only of our racing thoughts that are trying to time travel, but also being grounded in our bodies. And that, focusing on our physical senses can help us immensely to practice being present, so that we can have those impactful moments, so that we can almost, slow down time. Right? So that our emotions don't hijack us, and our critical thoughts don't take over. But we can wholly, as leaders and individuals, emotionally, mentally, and physically, be present. And as a result, not only can we be more present and have a greater impact in the moment, but we're not wasting energy thinking about the future, or the past, or what I'm supposed to be like, and I could just be myself in this moment. And that allows a lot more emotional, and physical, and mental reserves available to engage meaningfully with people, which also means we're less likely to make errors that we might regret in the future because we're fully, fully present. I I think you nailed it, Tracy.

Rob Durant [00:30:52]:

Flo, I've reported to leaders who must have been dealing with imposter syndrome because, frankly, they they were impostors. And I've dealt with leaders that were fantastic. How do you coach a leader towards that authenticity? How do you help them improve that self efficacy?

Flo LaBrado [00:31:21]:

Oh, man. That's it's it's easy, but it is hard because it is easy because the answer is know yourself. Figure out what's important to you, and lead from that position instead of pretending to be someone else. The hard part is slowing down enough to self evaluate and really get to know ourselves, and that that's really hard because, you know, we have the world moves very quickly. Things are constantly changing. We have to continuously adapt, and as a result, there's, like, a mix up between adapting to the situation, or adapting who we are as a person. And if I I can effectively adapt as a leader without necessarily changing who I am or trying to pretend that I can change who I am at my core. I can change my skills.

Flo LaBrado [00:32:07]:

I can gain new new experiences. I can learn to engage differently in the world. But my values are my values, and I need to honor those. And, so working with someone in that situation, oftentimes, we spend a lot of time on that self discovery, helping to a leader to extricate what their personal values and skills or strengths are from their identity in a specific profession, or even their identity in a specific organization. Because if the cheese moves, it doesn't mean that the the leader is now devoid of, you know, the skills, experience, their values, they're still there as they possess those. Right? So getting really grounded in that compass allows them to then understand themselves and lead accordingly, to be able to invite perspectives, to encourage and inspire others, and collectively, you know, bring people together to generate new ideas, creativity, innovate, problem solve, perform, without compromising themselves. Because when that compromise happens, there is less emotional reserve to be an emotionally intelligent, a resilient leader.

Rob Durant [00:33:14]:

Now I've worked with coaches. They've helped me assess when I should be advocating and when I maybe shouldn't. You mentioned slowing down. Is that something that somebody can do on their own, or is it really only something that, they can work through with a coach?

Flo LaBrado [00:33:38]:

This is definitely something that someone can do on their own, hands down, because creating, stretching what might feel like a millisecond into a second or 2 before responding gives us enough time to slow down our nervous system and think more critically, and that's someone that anyone can do on their own. However, I do recommend working with a coach when a problem continues to persist, and we operate in survival mode instead of thriving. And that is the difference. When a problem becomes so distressful that it's impacting performance or is impacting their team, frankly, is impacting the organization's, survivability as as a whole, I definitely encourage, working with a coach. Because at that point, we're not only dealing with the negative effects that the leader experiences, but potentially impacting many, many more people. So to accelerate that growth, absolutely, work with a coach. But, also, this is something we can do on our own, creating space. We think, like, when a problem comes or a question comes and we that we have to immediately have an answer.

Flo LaBrado [00:34:41]:

Most of the time, 2 seconds a 2 second pause to ground ourselves, to take that deep breath, to connect with our bodies, and then be able to tell their emotions, thank you for being your feelings, but you're a data point. You're not everything. Then that allows us to create to have the opportunity to create better answers, or even say, you know what? Let me think about that. Let me get back with you, instead of being so quick to the draw, and then regretting what we say.

Tracy Borreson [00:35:10]:

Well, and I would say too, I mean, I've done a lot of work in authenticity, and I like celebrating my 10 year anniversary of starting my mindset journey. Like, I started doing mindset work 10 years ago. And, like, my life today is completely different than my life 10 years ago, which I'm very excited about. But I had I was on a podcast recently, and the interviewer asked me, how do I know my values? Right? How do I know what what's my thing? What makes me unique so that I can, like, focus on that and build on that? And I do think one of the most interesting things about that and I've heard it called Johari's blind window. I usually just call it, like, what we don't know, we don't know about ourselves. But other people have experiences of us that we don't have of us. And so this is one of the reasons why I think coaching has become so prominent is that especially a coach who's looking for, like, flow. You're looking for leadership potential in a person.

Tracy Borreson [00:36:12]:

So you will likely see leadership potential on a person even if they don't see it in themselves. And then a coach can give you that something to base things on. And so one of the things I quite often tell people is, like, pay attention to what other people are saying about you that you like. K. And then people might be saying stuff about you that you don't like. But the example I always give is people often tell me I'm refreshing, and I don't prompt them with that word. This is just a word that people use for me. And every time I hear it, I'm like, yes.

Tracy Borreson [00:36:47]:

Because this is what I'm about, giving people new perspectives and things like that. So I like to be refreshing. And so when you, like, hear something someone says about you and it feels really meaningful for you, that's a window into your values, who you are as a person. And so these are the types of things that we can then take into our leadership environments, our environments with our friends and loved ones and non shows like this. Right? To just say like, oh, people use this word for me. That's really meaningful. So that's probably connected to a set of values or my compass, and and give yourself a chat. Even if you don't create the time to explore that more deeply, create the moment to, like my friend, Amisha, says take it to the bank.

Tracy Borreson [00:37:35]:

Right? Like, that someone said that about me. That's meaningful for me. Let it soak in for a moment, because then it gives you that something you can build on.

Flo LaBrado [00:37:46]:

I think I love that exercise. I that that one is such a good one because it allows us to create a little bit of distance, like step out of ourselves and assess ourselves. One of the reasons that coaching and even working with mentors, which are totally different things, I recommend both, is helpful is because we make meaning through the use of language. And, yes, we can think and use words and embeds. But when we have dialogue with another person, we're able to ask questions, interrogate what we say, what they say, compare notes, and through that dialogue, we are able to to determine the meaning, or to make meaning out of what we see. One of my favorite exercises is, and I use this, the coaching approach that I use is Co Active Coaching. It is about the balance of the person being, and the person doing what they need to do to move forward. And one of my favorite exercises that, from COACTIV is a peak moment.

Flo LaBrado [00:38:42]:

So I'll, I've had a coach walk me through this exercise, and I immediately loved him. Like, I'm using this too. And that is when we, ask someone to describe a peak moment, a time in their life when everything felt right in the world. And it could have been a 6 you know, a big milestone at work or a tender moment with family, whatever it is. Right? And then spend some time with that moment to mind that moment and understand who was there. What was important about that moment? How did you feel? And listening someone describe that moment and watching someone's face light up and their shoulders relax gives us indication of what their values might be. And so as then I can say, hey. It sounds what I'm hearing there and what you're describing is a value of x.

Flo LaBrado [00:39:27]:

How does that sound to you? And sometimes a person might say, oh, you know what? That's not quite it, but I think it's more this. And through that dialogue, we can discover that. And then, as an authentic leader, that leader can be armed with their values to guide their decisions, to be transparent in how they show up for their people, to be transparent in how they do business with stakeholders. And then, as a result, they don't have to spend time being someone else. They can be themselves, which, let's be real, when there's authentic leadership, people are more likely going to follow. Without authentic leadership, it is really hard to get the hearts and minds of people committed to whatever the mission is.

Rob Durant [00:40:07]:

Let's build on that for a moment. Let's talk about leadership impact. How can leaders use self efficacy, to inspire and motivate their teams? How can they have helped their, teams be more confident?

Flo LaBrado [00:40:26]:

Oh, that is so good. You know, we've talked about the shadow of the leader. Right? A leader showing up in a way that they're confident in their skills, their competencies, their experience, and they also have a positive disposition about the future, and their ability to deliver. Not perfectly, but forward movement. Right? That will inspire other people to also, 1, be confident in their own skills, and also have a positive disposition about their own performance. And I love seeing this played out, collectively. I with my own team, this is my favorite part, with my own team. We might realize, you know, hey.

Flo LaBrado [00:41:05]:

We're really good at these things. We have a track record record of doing awesome work in this area. And in the future, we need to move in this new area. Do we believe that we can do that? We might, you know, experience a little bit of doubt, and need additional resources, and gain experience throughout the process. But with a positive disposition that we can aim in that direction, and we're going to aim higher than if we stay still where we are now, that inspires people. I'd also add a couple of more things that are really important with teams, is that one, make it okay to make mistakes. And that is something that we can model, to say, Hey, you know what? I goofed. I messed up here.

Flo LaBrado [00:41:45]:

Not only to make amends if someone was wronged or in any way, but also as a learning opportunity, so that everyone can collectively learn, And, that makes it easier. It lowers the risk required for team members to say, I don't have the skills, or I'm not confident in this area, or, you know, I messed up in this area. Can you help me? Just one thing. And the second thing is to celebrate the wins. Celebrate the wins, whether they're big, or they're small, or it's a milestone, or maybe, you know, we have milestones 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and the win was like milestone 2 c. Celebrate it. Like, acknowledge it. Celebrate it.

Flo LaBrado [00:42:23]:

And sometimes, we might miss a milestone because of something that didn't go as planned. Celebrate that as well when there's learning. And that energy, that energy combined collectively will inspire and encourage people to go out and go self lead and do things, and then have things that they can look back on for confidence and further be getting the self efficacy and that positive outlook for the future.

Tracy Borreson [00:42:47]:

Flo, I have a, I have a question about the ability to use these skills from the middle, because I I'm feeling like there is a degree of psychological safety within an organization that needs to exist for a leader to be able to show up like this. And if the culture of the organization is more I mean, I was speaking recently with my sister, and she was talking about an organization she worked in. And she looked at all the upper management, and she was like, I would never want to be like that. Like so, like, I will do me, but, like, you were never gonna go anywhere in that organization unless you led with red. And I can't remember what personality assessment that is. But anyway, so, like, is it possible to, like, create a cultural shift from the middle with these skills? Or is it something that you might realize, like, hey, I'm now like, I'm not in alignment with this organization and I have to go find something that matches me better.

Flo LaBrado [00:43:53]:

Yes and yes. So, yes, it is possible to create that culture from the middle, anywhere really in the organization. It may not shift the entire culture of the organization, but it might shift the micro culture in the immediate. So when, when we look into the way that organizations operate in the different layers of organizational development, so maybe, there's a specific team that is in a tough situation, and they can't shift the culture of the entire organization, the entire company. However, that team, or that set of teams within that function or vertical, can create and foster that psychological safety, so that they can perform. And then what happens is that, it's not that it solves the the bigger issues of the organization, but the the benefits, the cohesiveness of the micro culture might become strong enough to offset the negative impacts of the bigger culture. And positively, might also encourage. You know what I mean? It might encourage others to also adapt change.

Flo LaBrado [00:44:59]:

But also, if, if someone is struggling and in survival mode for an extended period of time in an organization, changing organizations might be the right answer.

Rob Durant [00:45:12]:

What about the organization that's constantly in survival mode? You don't answer that.

Tracy Borreson [00:45:20]:

Well, I think I I remember when we did the episode with Sarah Melby, and I was explaining how I had a scenario as a leader where I felt like I had done a really good job of creating this island paradise for my team, and that was how they got to come to work every day. But I had to run around these, like, tall castle walls that were around this island, defending it from dragons. And so, like, that was my reality as the leader. And while I felt very good about what I had created for the team, my experience of the leader was still very much in that, like, defense protect mode. And now it's interesting to think about that now because I have different skills from a being myself perspective and I could probably do something different now if I was brought back into the same scenario. But it's I think that is still common for leaders is that we believe in us creating this microcosm, as you said, but then somehow we are not even like it it hasn't gotten to the point where we are benefiting from that. It's like we're caught in between. And it's almost like now there's like a greater in between a rock and a hard place.

Tracy Borreson [00:46:45]:

And I think it, it, it, it, it leads a lot of leaders to exit organizations. So for leaders who might feel like they are in that scenario, like, they have have the skills to create that space, but that they are not yet participating in that space. Do you have any advice for leaders in that scenario?

Flo LaBrado [00:47:07]:

Yes. And and as you described that, I envision, like, a moat, like, the leader being the moat protecting the team.

Tracy Borreson [00:47:13]:

Yes. But then there's also sharks in the moat, and so you have to avoid sharks.

Flo LaBrado [00:47:17]:

And so you're protecting, avoiding the sharks, fighting dragons in the other castle. It's a lot. And so, there are three things that come to mind is that, 1, we gotta trust our people. Our our people are resilient. They're creative. They're resourceful, and, maybe need less protection. And I've been there where I spent myself thinking I needed to protect my team from an incredible amount of change. This is many years ago.

Flo LaBrado [00:47:43]:

And I started I was exhausted. Right? So maybe we also trust, other people's, resourcefulness and adaptability, and help them to develop the adaptability to to manage in difficult situations. I think also for the leader and every single person in an organization, it's important to figure out how much overlap is there in the Venn diagram of the one's personal values and what they need from work and the organization. And it may not be a 100% match, But if the Venn diagram barely has overlap, then it may not be a good, you know, match. The organization may not be a good match for the leader. Or it may be that the leader doesn't quite understand themselves, or the organization doesn't quite understand itself. And we can put more time to unfold. But if it gets to the point of burnout and it's impacting health, then something has to change.

Flo LaBrado [00:48:33]:

And if the organization is not going to change, then the leader needs to may want to look at a change. Protect the mental health.

Rob Durant [00:48:46]:

How can I assess my, impostor syndrome or or level of of self efficacy? How do I know where I stand right

Flo LaBrado [00:48:57]:

now? Oh, that is a good question. There are multiple assessments out there on the Internet streets, and many are not, scientifically valid nor reliable. I, I lean toward a more organic approach. I encourage everyone, this is not a new idea, but I encourage everyone to have, a personal development board of directors. Like, people that pour into you, that will, support you, challenge you, give you feedback, advocate for you. And, the individual, the leader, the business professional, whoever it is, is the chairman of their board of directors, but enlist other people. Right? And that may be, mentors. It may be other leaders, their sponsor, champions, an executive, whoever it is, that can help them in those moments of, in those moments to understand where they are and, even maybe even catalog the skills, experience, competencies that they have.

Flo LaBrado [00:49:53]:

Right? And also, share some of that courage. Sometimes you gotta borrow that courage. You know? Sometimes you gotta borrow, and need that reminder from someone who knows you really well, that, that might encourage you to remember that you can try, that you can do things, that you can have, you can develop that self efficacy. Because it is the way that the world is changing so rapidly is going to make us question, at times, what we can do. Because what worked 6 months ago may not work 6 months from now. And as a result, we need to be grounded, and part of that grounding can be people to reflect and pour into us and challenge us as needed to to grow, not only holding on to our confidence, but to develop our self efficacy.

Bertrand Godillot [00:50:38]:

Just a quick question because I think we didn't talk about the elephant in the room here. Is there is there a gender specific syndrome?

Flo LaBrado [00:50:52]:

Yes. Tracy and I had this conversation. And this is this goes back to the same point that if there is a a almost, like, common prototype of what someone is supposed to look like in a specific role or place in the organization, and in many industries, that prototype is male. And as a result, if a woman is constantly evaluated against a standard, a prototype that is not if it's not me, I might experience that sense of I am not measuring up to what other people want, or I'm not going to be welcomed here. And so there is a degree that some percentage of imposter syndrome is not just based on the individual, but the social context in which that individual is moving and operating. And that goes back. Like, if we create supportive places in which we lower the the the sense of risk required to step out, where we constantly challenge what our perceptions, our prototypes are, then that allows more people to step in authentically, instead of trying to do their best to approximate whatever the prototype of the leader is supposed to be supposed to be.

Bertrand Godillot [00:52:04]:

Thank you.

Tracy Borreson [00:52:05]:

I actually did pretty much for

Bertrand Godillot [00:52:06]:

the answer, Flo.

Tracy Borreson [00:52:07]:

I actually did a workshop quite a while ago on authentic leadership, and we did this visualization exercise where people had to visualize the ideal leader. And so and then assess what was the the gap, right, between your picture of an ideal leader and and and who you are because that was if you're trying to fill that gap instead of being yourself, then this is where your energy goes. But I think a lot of times too, we have a societal pattern that has said predominantly it has been white males who have been in leadership positions. And I think there's also an opportunity for us to to chat. Like, yes. That's that's the back looking. But if we are focusing on our forward motion towards efficacy, then can't can't is this about that? The like, can we create space for our version of leadership? And maybe the reason why we're all here having this conversation is because the world needs this kind of leadership, not that kind of and and maybe in the past, it needed that kind of leadership, and that's fine. But if we're looking forward, can we create more space for the leaders of the future? And I think there's lots of opportunity.

Bertrand Godillot [00:53:22]:

Thanks.

Rob Durant [00:53:25]:

So this has been great. Where can people learn more? How can they get in touch with you?

Flo LaBrado [00:53:31]:

Oh, so I am on LinkedIn a lot. So you can find me on LinkedIn, flow, vibrato, msml. But if you plug in flowlobrato, you're probably not gonna find another one. So, flowlobrato on LinkedIn, also at flow at oliveandgraceleadership.com for email, and my website, olive and grace leadership. I am constantly on LinkedIn. I love connecting. This is how I met Tracy and many of you, but please come talk. I love, connecting and meeting new people.

Rob Durant [00:54:01]:

Excellent. Thank you. We now have a newsletter. Don't miss an episode, guest show highlights, beyond the show insights, and reminders of upcoming episodes. You can scan the QR code on screen or visit us at digital download dot live forward slash newsletter. On behalf of our panelists, Flo, and to our audience, thank you all. And we will see you next time Thank you very much. See you next time on the Digital Download.

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