This week on The Digital Download, we're diving deep into the world of remote work with our special guest, Shane Spraggs, Strategic Operations Leader, Productivity & Remote Work Expert, and Forbes Bestselling Author. With over 25 years of experience transforming organizations through innovative operations and a relentless focus on productivity, Shane has a proven track record of creating high-performing teams and delivering results in complex, fast-paced environments, particularly in the remote work landscape.

Join us as we discuss questions like:

* How can leaders effectively manage and motivate remote teams?

* What are the key challenges and opportunities associated with remote work?

* What strategies can be implemented to enhance communication and collaboration in a remote work setting?

* How can organizations ensure the well-being and productivity of their remote employees?

* What does the future of remote work look like, and how can businesses prepare for it?

Shane's insights into developing scalable workflows, coaching leaders, and driving transformational change in remote and hybrid teams promise a show rich in actionable advice. As Shane puts it, "Every organization has the potential to thrive when its teams are empowered, well-supported, and aligned with clear priorities." Bring your questions and insights. Audience participation is highly encouraged!

This week we were joined by our Special Guest -

• Shane Spraggs, Partner with Future of Productivity, author of The Power of Remote, Building High Performing Organizations That Thrive in the Virtual Workplace, Forbes.

This week's Host was -

• Bertrand Godillot, Founder and Managing Partner of Odysseus & Co, a proud DLA Ignite partner

Panelists included -

• Tim Hughes, CEO & Co-founder of DLA Ignite,

• Adam Gray, Co-founder of a DLA Ignite

Transcript of The Digital Download 2025-02-07

Bertrand Godillot [00:00:06]:

Hello. Oops. Sorry, guys. Good afternoon, good morning, and good day wherever you may be joining us from. Welcome to a new edition of the Digital Download, the longest running weekly business talk show on LinkedIn Live. Now globally syndicated on tuning radio through IBGR, the world's number one business talk, news, and strategy radio network. Today, we're exploring the world of remote work. We have a special guest, Shane Sprague, to help us with the discussion.

Bertrand Godillot [00:00:44]:

Shane is a strategic operations leader, productivity and remote work expert, and Forbes best selling author. With over twenty five years of experience transforming organizations through innovative operations and a relentless focus on productivity, Shein has a proven track record of creating high performing teams and delivering results in complex, fast paced environments, particularly in remote work landscapes. But before we bring Shane on, let's go around the set and introduce everyone. While we're doing that, why don't you in the audience reach out to a friend, ping them, and have them join us? We strive to make the digital download an interactive experience, so the audience participation is highly encouraged. Adam, would you, kick us off, please?

Adam Gray [00:01:38]:

Hi, everybody. I'm Adam Gray. I'm cofounder of DLA Ignite. And I think that this is a really interesting topic. You know, we saw such a huge shift in people's expectation of going into the office or working during COVID. And I think that since then, there's been a huge destabilization of the working environment. So hearing an expert talk about this rather than just people that have an opinion will be really in really enriching, I think.

Bertrand Godillot [00:02:03]:

And we're definitely looking forward to this. Tim, do you want to introduce yourself?

Tim Hughes [00:02:08]:

Yes. Thank you, and and welcome, everybody. I'm looking forward to this as well. Just to into, introduce myself, I'm Tim Hughes. I'm the CEO and cofounder of, the of DLA Ignite, and I'm famous for writing the book, Social Selling Techniques to Influence Bars and Changemakers. I've read, Shane's book. It's a great book. Just gonna, the power of remote.

Tim Hughes [00:02:32]:

And I'm really interested in digging into this because I think that, the playbook has changed. The work playbook

Bertrand Godillot [00:02:40]:

has changed. It has. Indeed, actually. And myself, Bertrand Godillot, I am the founder and managing partner of Odysseus and Co, a very proud DLA Ignite partner. As I said, this week on the digital download, we'll speak with Shane Spraggs. Shane's insight in developing scalable workflows, coaching leaders, and driving transformational change in remote and hybrid teams. Promised is so rich in actionable advice. Let's bring him on.

Tim Hughes [00:03:18]:

Hi, Shane.

Shane Spraggs [00:03:19]:

Thank you for having me. Pleasure.

Bertrand Godillot [00:03:22]:

Good morning and welcome. Shane, let's start by having you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and what led you to where you are today.

Shane Spraggs [00:03:32]:

Sure. Yeah. I started a my first business in 1998, ran for about twelve years, and it was one of those types of businesses where, you know, learned on, off the seat of my pants and had to go through everything, myself and, myself and a few partners. And I ran there for twelve years. And, from there, I I got some I got interest in project management, joined Disney for a number of years, and, worked with them, ran a helped run the operations of a studio here in Canada. And from that point, I went from I went on to a number of of, of of startups and, spent the last few years working with a company that was purely remote, and, where I got my my remote workshops, wrote the book on remote work best practices. And, now I'm back to consulting all all on my own. I'm I'm working with a couple other partners to, to help bring my experience, to other small businesses.

Shane Spraggs [00:04:34]:

And as I like to say, we we help, businesses that are successful but stuck. Those who are stuck at the plateau and haven't trying to get through it. So, yeah, I'm I've always been very interested in in how people work and how people, are more productive. You know, I've I think I mentioned to Tim that when I was really young, my my my mom told me that, I was would walk through a a grocery store and and line up all the cans on the aisle. It was just something in my DNA is just to make things more, productive, more organized. And, I'm sure there's a name for that these days, but, and, I've always just had a fascination for for and what it's turned into these days is recognizing that we aren't hiring employees or staff or resources. We're hiring humans, and you need to understand how humans work to get the most out of them.

Bertrand Godillot [00:05:28]:

Excellent. Thank you for thanks for that, Shane. So let's start with a foundational question. How can leaders effectively manage and motivate remote teams? Because it seems to be a big question. Yeah.

Shane Spraggs [00:05:43]:

And it's it's always a little bit more complex than it sounds. We see we're so used to blogs and LinkedIn posts that all say, you know, this one thing is what you need to do to to do this, you know, or to be successful. And then really and when you start to learn all the ins and outs, it's a system. It really everything has to rely on each other. But there is one there's a couple of things that are are more important than others, and and one of the big ones for me is management. Managers have to understand how to delegate, how to follow-up with tasks, how to work with people. And, and it's just not a it's not a common skill for for companies to have good managers. And a good manager will will allow a individual to be productive and work independent of the, of where they are working.

Shane Spraggs [00:06:33]:

And, and then, like, you know, the company has to be able to, encourage that manager to to to run that way. But there's other aspects to it as well. There's, you know, how you how you organize your culture. Cultures have to be, intentional. There's no there's no such thing as a, you know, a water cooler as they they say. And and let's be honest, you know, if you were you know, the companies that run based on the water cooler are are really leaving things to chance. It's all, you know yes. It's organic.

Shane Spraggs [00:07:00]:

It's, you know, it's great for people to go off at noon and and have conversations and, you know, discover new ways of doing things. But if a company wants to be successful these days, they have to have some control over over their destiny, and I'm a big proponent on the word intentional. So everything has to be intentional. You have to have a a plan for everything. It doesn't have to be overly planned out, but, between that and management, those are those are some of the bigger things, and and we'll probably get into, relatedness in a in a moment as well. That's, that's how you have how you have to build your build your your connections in internally with your your team.

Tim Hughes [00:07:41]:

Because Shane, one of the things that I I see is there's a lot of people that are saying we're gonna have return to work orders. And the people that are saying this grew up in a world where and I remember this when I grew up, which is that, the, we what would happen is that the the man would go to work, the woman would stay at home and look after the children. And when the man went to work, he basically, he was white, and he walked down to the train station, and he got a train, and he got into an Mhmm. And things happened in the office, and then he came home again. And that was the playbook that was related to me and to thousands of millions of people at that time. And then we have all these we have these these people that are saying we now need to go back to the office, and they come from that time. They come from the with the only thing work is you know, we had a senior leader, a business leader who I who is a fantastic, influential, and inspirational, leader here, who's done a number of things with a number of companies and been very successful, saying that, if you work from home, it's not real work. And now now we've we've talked about working from home before.

Tim Hughes [00:09:01]:

We we do understand and realize that not everybody can work from home. If you're in construction, you can't work from home. If you're if if, you know, there's lots of jobs you could do where you can't work from home. But if what we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about the people that can work from home. So how is it that I mean, you kind of answered it there, but we we went through a different paradigm, didn't we, during COVID where we proved that we could work from home. So is it just about the the actually, we need to relearn? Do do leadership need to actually start getting an understanding what what what leadership in a hybrid world is?

Shane Spraggs [00:09:35]:

Well, this is a a multifaceted, answer. The first is I don't think leaders, of larger companies have always have ever listened to what makes their staff successful. And I I recall, you know, my days back in Disney, and this is, you know, early on, and if you go you can go back further, you know, the the these this concept of these large buildings, people you would work in, you know, the open office concept, that wasn't successful either. That was that was detrimental productivity, but there's a certain element of what they are looking for when it comes to having people work at the office. They want control, and that's different. And I would hope that they'll you know, a lot of the people you're we have listening to this conversation, they they they're likely not in charge of large businesses, and you have the opportunity to influence them so that they can they can take what they've learned and do better for their staff and do better for their company and allow them to get more out of their their their team, all the while creating an environment that helps them thrive as individuals as well. And so, you know, you you take, you know, you take in a a given company, and the larger it gets, the harder it is to control. And so this is really what the the the end game is.

Shane Spraggs [00:10:51]:

The the the people they're looking for ways to to shortcuts in order to to have a sense of organization and control over the business, without having it break into small individual silos that, maybe, you know, push back on the company culture.

Tim Hughes [00:11:09]:

Because because I've I I I have a, I have got a friend who's, he's 40 this year. So he's not particularly old. He works for one of the big five banks, but he is he he he wants the people in the office so he can go, Steve's not. Where's Steve? Yeah. Yeah. He he's he's he's been long longer than an hour for lunch. That's you know, Steve, what are you doing? And he wants to have that control and say, where are are all the people?

Shane Spraggs [00:11:37]:

Yeah. I I think despite the return to office mandates, you know, and and the shift that's happened since, you know, maybe, you know, a couple years ago since COVID was over, it I think we've made that we've turned that corner. I don't necessarily think that the remote work, was the was the big, you know, evolution from from from, from COVID. What it really was, we changed technically how we work. You know, we we we tend to have far more, conversations over video now, instead of using a phone or even email. We tend to do a lot of our conversations over chat, and the whole concept of working with people has changed. And it's more likely that even if you are in the office, you're remote you're working remotely with those individuals. You know, you're you're a team.

Shane Spraggs [00:12:21]:

And certainly, if you're working with a big organ organization, they don't call it remote work. They call it distributed work. And somehow that's different. You know, you're you have team members all across, you know, the world and and, you know, lots of different time zones. That's even more complicated. And somehow that's a that that's that's a a reasonable way of working with each other. But if you happen to take your office space and work work from your house, there's a there's a sense of, you know, entitlement there that you're not allowed to have. So I I think it is a mind shift in in a lot of ways.

Shane Spraggs [00:12:56]:

I think we've we've we've turned the corner from a, from the purely in office, you know, the days of faxes and and and printers are gone. There were days of getting, you know, into boardrooms to have large conversations with people who are in just entirely in your office are are gone as well. And I think that this new way of working is is slowly transfer transitioning into a world where we're all digital. We all have flexibility around where we work. And some places will choose to have you work at their office, and that's that would be a personal choice. I mean, the last study I saw from, from the, the remote work institute said that, out of 10 people, five of them actually wanna work from home, and only one weren't wants to work in the office full time, and the other four want some form of remote of hybrid work. Those are individuals, not companies. So you're you're gonna find, I think, as we grow, the there'll there will be companies that match that.

Shane Spraggs [00:13:54]:

Right? If you're looking for a remote work job these days, good luck. It's you know, they are going so fast, and we see we hear story after story of the best people leaving comp large companies because of the return to office mandates. So remote work is a is a is a is a power up for any company that's looking for people. Right? They they not only have access to a massive talent pool, not just, you know, because it's outside of their their local area. You know, if you can drive more than an hour outside of where their office is, you can now pick up people from all over, you know, The UK and, you know, other other areas. And and, and you also get access to quality people as well. And so it it is a real boon for companies that want to to to take that, that cultural shift, and we're slowly leaving these other ones behind.

Adam Gray [00:14:49]:

So so why is that not the norm? So I remember twenty five years ago, more than twenty five years ago, I was working for an agency in London. And, it was one of those environments where every now and again, I would take a day off and work from home. And I used to feel incredibly guilty about doing that because I would get up at the normal time, I would work, and by midmorning, I'd have done everything. And it's like and I would hunt around for things to do because you're so much more productive, and you haven't got stupid people coming and sitting on the edge of your desk wanting to chat about what you did to what you watched on TV last night, what you did at the weekend, or whatever it may be. And I always thought even at that point twenty five years ago that there was a massive benefit for both me and the business by being that much more productive in that environment. So it strikes me that, you know, back to Tim's point about where Steve is taking more than an hour for lunch kind of scenario. It strikes me that that in many instances, a business wants to control what you do and what you achieve. Because surely, in the modern world, you should have two forms of measuring somebody.

Adam Gray [00:16:13]:

The time you clock in and the time you clock out and you're paid by the hour or you're paid by results. And if you come in at 09:00 in the morning and you've you've you've achieved a massive sale by 09:30, well, take the rest of the week off because you've done your number for the week.

Shane Spraggs [00:16:28]:

Right.

Adam Gray [00:16:28]:

But that attitude, which actually when you hire somebody, you should be buying their output, not their input. That attitude seems to be almost nonexistent normally, doesn't it, in in the business world. Why is that?

Shane Spraggs [00:16:42]:

Well, you've you've hit the nail on the head right there. And the the real issue is is how do how does an order a company or an organization give you a list of things to accomplish and measure you on it instead of just measuring your time? Measuring your time in the office is easy.

Adam Gray [00:16:58]:

Yeah.

Shane Spraggs [00:16:59]:

I can look at your I can see you're at the desk. Measuring what you're what you've accomplished requires there to be some good management who knows what needs to be done, can break it down for you and and work with you to delegate it to you and set some guidelines and then follow-up with you to make sure you're finished with it. And and to then to capture the fact that that's been accomplished as a way of measuring your throughput. And that's that's really where it comes it's it's you know, my my my firm opinion around why we are the return to office mandates are happening. Yes. There's lots of theories around, you know, office buildings are empty and it's gonna cost money and, you know, that, people wanna see you know, people want organic conversations again. I I believe it really comes down to management. A large you know, certainly, these large businesses have some intelligent people working for them.

Shane Spraggs [00:17:53]:

They see the potential for the for the productivity increase. But the shift required to to retrain all of their managers to not just know how this works, but to be good at it. You know? And and management's been one of these things that has has been under underserved for years. We tend to take a really good employee. We know we know this story. Take a good employee, turn them into a bad manager, and we were doing that way before the the pandemic. And it hasn't changed. In fact, it just got worse because we we now have another layer that they have to learn.

Shane Spraggs [00:18:26]:

Now you have to be able to manage without being able to touch or see the people you're working with in the office. You can't gather them at a the moment's notice because you didn't do a good enough job organizing the work that needed to be done. And so

Adam Gray [00:18:38]:

Part of the issue that Yep. That we're we're managing the wrong things. So one of the issues that, that we see when we talk to we we work a lot in sales departments. And one of the issues that we see in sales departments is that you are KPI'd or part of your your KPI program is around doing activities that are no longer relevant in the way that they once were. So this might be cold calling people, dialing people up on the chance that you can sell them something. So as an employee that's working in that environment, if I spend all of my time cold calling people, I'm not gonna make my number. So Tim, my boss, is gonna be saying, you haven't sold enough stuff this month. And I'll say, but I've done all of these calls.

Adam Gray [00:19:19]:

And he says, I don't care. You haven't sold enough stuff. Conversely, if I am selling enough stuff, you'll phone me up and say, how many calls have you made? I said, well, what does it matter? I've sold 200% of my number. Yeah. But I've told you, you need to make a hundred calls a week. So, actually, you you you you're in this situation with, as they say, the cleft stick. You know, either end can beat you to death. And and and the the challenge is that so often, we are we have that kind of we we work with a guy that used to refer to it as his Victorian mill owner, you know, who would wear wear the old top hat and would would talk about all of these old things that had to happen even though they're completely irrelevant today.

Adam Gray [00:19:59]:

We're stuck in that, aren't we?

Shane Spraggs [00:20:01]:

Well, I think we're stuck there for some organizations. I mean, like I said, there's been a cultural shift in, in certainly entrepreneurs. So if we give it twenty years, and and over that twenty years, you imagine people are starting new businesses, it makes zero sense for someone who is bootstrapping a company to say, I'm gonna spend 5 to $6,000 a month or pounds to open an office. And it's just it's just a a simple

Tim Hughes [00:20:26]:

decision that we made. Yeah.

Shane Spraggs [00:20:28]:

Yeah. Exactly. And so and and what's gonna happen is you you you maybe if you're successful, you're gonna start, you know, hiring people. And because you're you have no office, you're not gonna be restricted to that hour you know, circumference around somewhere. And you're gonna even in UK, you could you know, there's tons of people you could hire. There will be you know, it's impossible for them to drive you drive through your office on a daily basis. So you'll start to grow your business even regionally in a way that's not suitable for an office. And I my firm belief is that the next Google and Amazon are being created right now in someone's basement.

Shane Spraggs [00:21:02]:

And we'll see that shift. But I also think there's always going to be a component of of businesses that are they're going to be in the office for people who wanna work in the office. And so hopefully hopefully, employees of the future, depending on who where AI goes, will have some choice. And along with choosing the industry you wanna work with and the type of role you wanna have, you'll also have a sense of, yeah, I'm an in office person or a, you know, a a remote work type of person or a hybrid.

Bertrand Godillot [00:21:32]:

So I'd I'd like, Shane, to to, bring a specific topic on the table because we, yes, indeed. You know, I even experienced that twenty five years ago, almost thirty years ago when we started a business in France, actually, entirely remote. The point is is I think maybe there is an area which it's already not welcome hard hardly very well covered, which is onboarding. And and and the question is really about, is there a is there a best practice, a a good way to do onboarding remotely? Because my experience is, you know, it's it's it's probably one of the most tricky part.

Shane Spraggs [00:22:16]:

Yeah. And like all activities, I I often remind people that people do a bad job of this in the office as well. You know, we've all heard stories where you get your first day involves walking to a room that has a box in it, and that's your desk you have to build, you know, or, you know, you have to find somebody to to tell you where the bathroom is. You know? And I I I'm a firm believer that a good onboarding plan, for remote work will be equally valuable in the office. And it's simply a matter of sitting down. I I like to plan out a whole year the whole first week of an individual, including when their lunches are. So they they know when to stop and go take lunch. But on that onboarding plan, outline who they have to meet and why and what what activities they're going to do.

Shane Spraggs [00:23:04]:

And and if you're if you're if the company's a bit more mature, you may have some premade activities that they can they can do, so that they can work on on understanding the business while you're, you know, while you're, you're doing other things, and you don't have to hold their hand all the time. But it's it's a very simple very simple situate system. You sit down on the first day, and you you share this onboarding plan with them. It's like, hey. Let's decide what we're gonna what you're gonna accomplish this first week. Here you know, At the end of this first week, you sit down with them again and say, okay. Let's talk about what you're gonna accomplish next week. You give them some control over that and say, hey.

Shane Spraggs [00:23:37]:

You know, what do you think you're gonna accomplish? You do that for the first four weeks, and then after the first month, you got a month done. Do that again for the next month, the following month. Before you know it, you have three months worth of of, of of of follow-up with the individual, and you have now the makings of a performance plan for the next three months. So, it's it is a simple matter. If you're hiring onboarding somebody, it's you know, sit down, ask the question, what is everything they need to know? Put it in a very short list. Don't put too much detail into it. Just list it on a bullet point, and that becomes your agenda for the first meeting. Like, hey, John.

Shane Spraggs [00:24:13]:

Thanks for joining the company. You know, here are all the things we're going to learn over the next little while, and, you know, we're going we're going to, I'm going to introduce you to these individuals and, and make sure you're off to a good start. And it's the same thing that would work better best work well in a office environment.

Bertrand Godillot [00:24:32]:

Okay. Good. So maybe maybe not not not trying to to to run-in circles here, but what what do you think are the biggest misconceptions about remote work?

Shane Spraggs [00:24:48]:

Yes. The biggest for for biggest that's a good one. I haven't I haven't, thought of that one for a while for a bit. Let me see here.

Bertrand Godillot [00:24:55]:

I'll give you while while you think about it, I'll give you an example. When I when I when I when I when I did that thirty years ago, all of my friends who were actually on-site were saying, well, it's pretty cool for you. Right? So it's, so because you work from home, so basically, you could, you know, it's it's it's, you do whatever you want. And maybe you're you're actually less working. This you you're working less than anybody else. Well, the actual the the reality for me was that I was bit I was actually working far more than anybody else to the point where I had to put an out switch on my desk just to to call it a day. So, I'm sure there are plenty of these, and I I was just trying to understand, you know, from from your perspective and as as a as a consultant, what do you see into your, into your with your customers?

Shane Spraggs [00:25:46]:

Well, from from take it from the perspective of somebody who works in the office and believes that office work is important. I think the, the misconception is likely that people who work at home don't care. That they they they have no, you know, dedication to the business because they they can just do what they want at home, and no one's keeping track of their productivity. And, they're just, you know, they're they're they're they're having a piss as they would say it. Taking a UK. Yeah. Of of the, of the business, and they're just getting away with it. Right? So that would be a thing that that if you if you aren't a remote worker and you you you're a firm believer of the, you know, that you should be working in the office, your misconception is simply that that, people who are working from home are lazy.

Bertrand Godillot [00:26:45]:

Mhmm.

Shane Spraggs [00:26:47]:

But it's really the the opposite is true.

Tim Hughes [00:26:49]:

But but isn't but isn't there kind of a I mean, if we take, if we take the demographics of people and say, okay. So, so my partner's eldest son is, he's 30 this year. He likes going to the office because he likes going for beers after, he likes the sociability about it. And he also wants to be in the fact that he's actually talking to people because he thinks if he's not in the office, that impacts he won't get a promotion. Whereas there's also, people that will have who are probably younger than him that could have young children. There could be people like, my myself and and Adam and my partner who have elderly parents who, sometimes all of a sudden we need to do something. So what I'm just saying is that it's not just there's not just one group, but all the way through, different ages, there is a reason why we might find working from home or working from home sometime actually useful. But, also, we want to be in the office

Shane Spraggs [00:27:53]:

or some

Tim Hughes [00:27:54]:

people would wanna be in the office. So so there isn't kind of there isn't a cookie cutter because everything you read, there's a cookie cutter. This is hybrid work. But, actually, everybody's different.

Shane Spraggs [00:28:04]:

And that's exact yeah. That's exactly right. You know? And we are so used to having, you know, like I said earlier, that blog that says this is the one thing that, you know, but in reality, it's a it's a quite the spectrum. And I was always I was surprised to to learn that the majority of remote workers are in their late later stages of work. You know, 35 to 45 is where the majority of remote workers are. And this is largely for me, it's largely because they already know how to work. There's a certain there's some unspoken rules you have to learn, to do to be a good employee that you only you you tend to only learn through through work and at the office. And I do advocate.

Shane Spraggs [00:28:43]:

If you're if you were an a a young employee who are just getting into the workforce out of out of university or college, spend the next five years at an office, because you'll you'll learn stuff there that gives you the right mindset for working remotely, that it's tough to learn when you're on your own and, and disenfranchised from the rest of the work the rest of the work. By the time you get to your 30 late thirties, you're less interested in building social connections and more interested in in being productive. And it's just that I think he says it's just a different mindset.

Tim Hughes [00:29:20]:

And and where and what so is you know, we have a lot of leaders that listen to this. So if if that's the case, and and we're finding that all of our employees have all of these different, attributes. What can leaders do to basically because we're gonna have we're gonna we wanna employ people, right across the spectrum because we wanna have people that can contribute who are maybe older than 30, But we also wanna make sure that we have a succession plan of people that are coming, growing up and is gonna take those that that those those people's places.

Shane Spraggs [00:29:57]:

Well, I still believe that people who are in late thirties have a lot of career left in them. And, you know, even even if you are only hiring people at 35 and over, they still have lots of time to to have succession plans into your business. But I would I would suggest that rather than, you know, start business owners should start with an understanding of what kind of business they wanna run, and the type of people they wanna hire. There's lots of diversity in in the in the role. And then just if they're going if they're going to be hiring, younger individuals who have less experience, put more effort around them. Have the have better better training for your managers so that those managers know how to keep them, you know, informed and and give them a bit more mentoring than than normal. So, you know, remote work companies do benefit from having, more more official mentors. And and as a business owner, you can you can establish those those relationships, within your company, and that can be very productive, very helpful for the people who are working there.

Shane Spraggs [00:30:56]:

So lean into mentoring.

Tim Hughes [00:30:58]:

When you say mentoring, that's also about having things like buddies and

Shane Spraggs [00:31:02]:

Yeah. So a good mentor will will take an interest in your career. And Right. So the the main difference between a coach and a mentor from my standpoint, the coach will help you through a task. Right? And help you understand the work and, and get you from point a to point b from a from a a task person. A a buddy for, you know, onboarding buddies. We talked Bertrand about, about onboarding. Signing somebody an onboarding buddy is also critical.

Shane Spraggs [00:31:27]:

And that that buddy role, is a connection to the social side of the business, which is entirely possible with remote work. There's there's nothing saying you can't have a social, relationship with people you're working with. It's just a little bit more professional. And then a a good mentor will will take an interest in you as an individual and help you through some difficult decisions or help you see opportunities that maybe you haven't seen. And there you know, in a business, if you have a large enough organization, say, a hundred plus, getting your, you know, having somebody who's not in your department mentor you, is is both good for you and good for them as well. It's it's it's very educational to be a mentor. You know? It you can learn a lot from it.

Bertrand Godillot [00:32:15]:

So so we so you said initially that the this this to be successful, basically, you need a system. So you talked about management, and you you basically said that there there was a lack of investment, you know, in in that area. And you talked about culture. So I'd like to to bring the the topic a little bit on culture. What are the things that you can do to actually cultivate that culture of remote work?

Shane Spraggs [00:32:39]:

Yeah. For for me, there's three different, keywords that are working. We've talked about about one of them. One is intentional. Being intentional about all the things that need to be done in your business are, you know, are are is very important. For me, culture is the combined habits of the organization, and, you know, being intentional about it means not just putting together, you know, standard operating procedures. It's it's making sure that people read them and follow them and and create build habits around them. The next is transparency.

Shane Spraggs [00:33:10]:

The more transparent you can be, the easier it is for people to find information and easier for people to understand things like the, you know, the the the purpose of the business, the values of the organization. And and a remote business has to do better at communicating those values and though that vision to their team, unlike you know, I'm I'm sure we've all experienced this where you you join a company in in, you know, brick and mortar. They tell you what their their mission statement is on the first day, and you never hear it again. You know, usually, just just just for whatever reason, though, that was something we did, and it it I don't know who who's using these, but you you just never hear but you you need to do better at, with both your values and your mission statement too. You repeat them on a regular basis. And values are can be, can be very important for your culture. A good value will help your your, team members make decisions. So your your company anyone working in it, your employees can can make a decision when you're not there around the values the business has.

Shane Spraggs [00:34:13]:

And the last big one, and I touched on it a little bit, is relatedness and, understanding how to build relatedness and how that fits in. And so, I discovered a couple years ago the workings of Edward Dessie and Richard Ryan. And these are two individuals who in the eighties, established the self determination theory. And that talks about what motivates individuals. And prior to that time, motivation was looked at as extrinsic, meaning that it was applied to you. The carrot and stick sort of situation. And they posited that motivation was largely intrinsic and was built up by three main pieces. Autonomy, how much control do you have over the the work and and, and how much, you know, do you do you benefit from it? Next one is competency, how qualified you are for that work.

Shane Spraggs [00:35:02]:

You know, if you're underqualified, it's gonna be a struggle or stressful. If you're overqualified, it's gonna be boring and not interesting. You need to find that Goldilocks zone. And the last was relatedness, which is a bit nebulous. But relatedness is this is is I look look at it as as one step before friendship and above small talk. Right? So we're having some conversation today that's a little bit more than, than that small talk. And because of that, we're gonna we're gonna form a sense of relatedness. Relatedness is a is the foundation of trust.

Shane Spraggs [00:35:32]:

You know, combination of doing what you know, having a a, you know, the, you know, the a a strong connection with somebody and their their belief that you will get things done through and if you demonstrate to them that you can get things done and and you follow through on your commitments, that builds trust. And relatedness is one of those things if you take a step back and look at, a a lot of the online communities. My I like to I like to talk about, I don't play it, but Call of Duty comes up to comes to mind. The the, you know, online games, they have fantastic teams of people who who never meet each other in person. And you every once in a while, you'll see these news stories of people who have been playing online games for for years, and they finally get together in person, and they have the most the closest relationship. And this is because you don't necessarily have to be in person to form the connections you need to be successful. You, you know, and there's the Wharton's neuro school of neuroscience had came up with this. They did a study that says they basically came up with this great sentence that says, brains that fire together wire together.

Shane Spraggs [00:36:49]:

So people who work together and accomplish things together tend to form this level of relatedness. We extrapolate that, you're it you're now removing social from the business, which is fine. Social, you know, in in person builds relatedness, but it's not required for business. And in fact, when you remove it from your business, you have a lot less drama, a lot lot less conflict. And in my experience, remote work businesses just get stuff done. They just they just don't they don't get hung up on on on office politics or or, you know, you know, who who microwaved fish in the microwave. You know, that those sort of issues don't become a problem. And the, and so then those remote workers can go and get social their social fix outside of the office with the people they want to be with.

Shane Spraggs [00:37:47]:

So those are three things. Make sure you have intentionality with everything, all the processes and systems and and habits you have formed in the business. And that includes, you know, you know, right up to the top from, you know, from from the values you have and the purpose of the business. Be transparent with, you know, with everything. Be you know, make as as best as you can. I know there's always some things you don't wanna share, but if you e write it down to, you know, your compensation structure, if you know that, hey, you're a level two, you know, office manager, and you're gonna be in this this bandwidth, That's healthy for people. It takes away a level of stress that, you know, worrying about what, you know, what Bertrand's making versus Adam versus Tim. You know, how come you guys are all making different month different months of money? I'm I'm I'm equal to to you.

Shane Spraggs [00:38:34]:

I should be making you know, that it removes all that. And finally, the last one is relatedness and understanding how relatedness works and managing it is a is a key component to remote work.

Bertrand Godillot [00:38:44]:

So we we have a great comment, and I'll I'll bring it up, from, from, Rob Robert, in the in the audience. Let's say, think think brainstorming with breakout rooms, is still better in person with whiteboards and post it notes, than any technology virtual solution. And I love tech.

Shane Spraggs [00:39:07]:

Yeah. So it's so it's

Bertrand Godillot [00:39:07]:

not to lag out, basically. It's just

Tim Hughes [00:39:10]:

Yeah. I know Robert, and and I and I agree with him, which is it's a great comment, which is, I'm I'm, you know, I I I'm the CEO of a remote business. But if I had the opportunity, I would get everybody's if you wanna do some brainstorming, and we have done that, we've got everybody together in a in a either a hotel or a a a room. There's there's something fun about pushing people out the way so they can't put their sticky up on that as a joke. You know?

Shane Spraggs [00:39:35]:

Yeah.

Tim Hughes [00:39:36]:

And and because that's that's that's part of the fun of it. It's part of the brainstorm.

Shane Spraggs [00:39:40]:

Yeah. I'm I'm I'm on the same mindset. I mean, it's absolutely, valuable to get people together in person for brainstorming new activity and but you you're not you're just not doing that all the time. I've I've got a buddy who, who who who works for a large, game company. They make online games, mobile games, and they're, I think, about 500 plus people. They are taking the entire company to Portugal Nice. For a week. Right? They're not spending any money on offices.

Shane Spraggs [00:40:13]:

So it's perfectly reasonable for them to to to fly everyone to a country and get together in person for a week. And doing that on on a week on a yearly basis, and having some or even getting people together on a periodic basis to do some brainstorming is perfectly reasonable. And it's it's probably the one thing that, you know, that, yes, it might be on in the in the con column as opposed to one of the pros. But it it can be turned around to be one of the the pros because you invest in it and you, you know I I also, you know, building on that, I I I remind people that just because you don't have an office doesn't necessarily mean you have to you get to save all that money. You take the money you're saving, you put it towards education and learning development and getting people together in person occasionally. Because that fast tracks the building relatedness and it makes for these conversations that are fantastic and, you know, the the brainstorming ones that I'm a big sticky note lover. I got piles of sticky notes. So that's one of the things I missed.

Tim Hughes [00:41:16]:

My, my my partner works for a big company, and they're very much of the, even though they did they have remote work, they're very much of the it's all about the, meeting around the, water cooler. But when she goes into the office, she's she's on, Teams calls. And and then she actually had and it's like a library. Nobody talks to each other, and it's like it's like quiet. And she actually had an intern. They've got these, you know, these tech the thing nowadays, you know, you've got social tables where people sit down. And this intern sat next to her and said, whispered, is it okay if I talk to you? And it's like and and this is goes back to what you're saying about working in the office and actually understanding what working in the office means. And my partner said, yeah.

Tim Hughes [00:42:04]:

Of course. You know? Tell me what you do, and and and, you know, and and can I help you? And, you know, it's and and have a have a proper conversation with the person. But the the they they had no idea how to work in the office, and and they're not getting the full benefit because of the fact that, actually, no one says anything.

Shane Spraggs [00:42:21]:

Yeah. And to that point, there's there's, yeah, remote work has decreased the numbers. Most businesses these days, especially the smaller ones are hybrid. You know, they you know, back when the pandemic started, they they already had people in the working for the office who are within that one hour or one and a half hour, circumference around the the the building. And and so they already had houses that were nearby. And now there's been some return to the office from a, you know, like, you know, one or two days a week. But they're they're doing it wrong. They're just they they're not planning out, and people are showing up to an empty office out of out of, you know, you know, mandate from the from the company.

Shane Spraggs [00:43:05]:

You gotta work one day in the office, but they don't talk about which one. And and people aren't putting the effort into what to do with that time to make it more valuable. And it really all comes back down to, you know, that if you run a business, there's a certain amount of responsibility you have to understand how it works.

Tim Hughes [00:43:24]:

Yeah. I was I I I was also talking to someone, last week, and, they live just outside of London, so they have to get their training. And they so so what in summary, what she said is that you can never get a a a car parking space on Tuesday and Wednesday at this train station because everybody goes to the office on Tuesday and Wednesday. Nobody goes to the office Monday, Thursday, and Friday. Everybody so so so there's this so it it's not exactly hybrid work. It's just that everybody goes on on on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Shane Spraggs [00:43:55]:

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. There's the the Wednesday problem as they they say. You know, if you do have a a hybrid setup, you you tend to get the people tend to go

Tim Hughes [00:44:04]:

because most people have now shrunk the offices because the assumption, a mate of mine was, what it shrunk the offices down to, what was it, like, 50% of what they needed. And now what happens is a % of people go in on Tuesday and Wednesday, and they've got 50% of the desks.

Shane Spraggs [00:44:21]:

Yeah. It does it does take some some time to really, understand how your office runs and and how it's gonna work for your people and and be intentional around it. Again, that's the intentional thing. And we we we've we've so for so many years, got, got, away with just with letting it happen on its own and being lucky in some cases. But back to your your point at the earlier about, brainstorming. The other thing that that is hopefully people have learned as well through, you know, if you're going to get bring remote work people into, you know, a common area for for in person brainstorming, make the best of it. And the and and do some prework. And this is one of the things we talk about.

Shane Spraggs [00:45:12]:

We we Vertera ran a a, a really interesting study, a couple of years in a row. They they ran a study in 02/2021 and then again in 02/2023 on, it was originally supposed to be on Zoom burnout, and it ended up being on meeting burnout. And the fact that one of the challenges with remote work, if you don't know how to do it well, people tend to replace the social interactions with meetings. And they don't you know, you end up with your day full of meetings and you end up sitting there from, you know, 08:00 in the morning to two and two or three in the afternoon without a break. Yeah. And this is this is one of the downsides of remote work if it's not it's not managed well. And the difference between a remote meeting versus in person meeting is in person you stand up and leave and go to a different room. And that little micro break you get, is very important, for your mind and for your body.

Shane Spraggs [00:46:06]:

You know, from a mental standpoint, it helps you remember things. And you don't you just don't get that remotely. So the, one of the things we advocate is doing upfront work for meetings. And so if you're gonna run a meeting, ask the question, you know, what are we trying to accomplish here, and what work can be done upfront to make it a little more productive? And it it can really supercharge your meetings if you, if you put it and think about it in that respect.

Tim Hughes [00:46:31]:

Yeah. I I, when I was in corporate, I used to do quite a lot of work with, funnily enough, social media, internal social media. And one of the things that we started doing was actually running, work, upfront work on social media. We create, in the equivalent of Slack, a Slack team for people that and actually have the discussion. And what we found is that we could reduce meeting time by 50%. Yeah. Because and in fact, sometimes we actually didn't need to have a meeting because it was all basically agree. Well, actually, the answer is this.

Tim Hughes [00:47:01]:

Well, let's just go and do it.

Shane Spraggs [00:47:03]:

Yeah. And another recent innovation and maybe not so recent for some people, but, with the advent of TikTok and Instagram with people, you know, being more comfortable talking to themselves, talking to the camera, we're seeing more and more people using, asynchronous communication. You you record a a minute or five minute video and you send that off instead of, you know, instead of typing in text message. And not only does it save you a ton of time because you're you you can speak more fluidly and less perfectly than you would type. It conveys your emotion along the and your your intent and tone and your intention along the way, and it does a much better job. And sometimes you can even show people what you're what you're pointing at. And so I'm I'm a big proponent of, this, asynchronous, you know, voice memos or or video memos because they they they do a lot of heavy lifting. And a two minute video memo can remove and reduce, you know, a thirty minute meeting to let's let's get together and talk it through.

Shane Spraggs [00:48:04]:

Okay. Here's the video of what I'm talking about. Oh, I understand that now. Thank you. And let's go about my day. And that

Tim Hughes [00:48:10]:

We we had a, one of our clients actually did that. They got all the, so Catherine Cole at, Telstra basically did a, got all the sales team to to at the end of the week, do it was a one minute video. And part of it, it was trying to get the sales team to get used to to doing videos so they could put it on social media. But the other reason was just to just just summarize and boil down what you've done this week, highlights, lowlights, and send it to me in a in a minute video. No more than a minute.

Shane Spraggs [00:48:38]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Fantastic, tool. And it used to be the, you know, it used to be the the the domain of companies that, had lots of time zones involved. So you get your, you know, you do your daily stand up. Everyone would do five minutes or a minute video from, you know, all over the world, and then it would all show up in one Slack channel. But now and more and more, they can be used to convey more information. And it's that tone and, you know, you know, in in indentation of your voice that really matters.

Adam Gray [00:49:10]:

So so here's here's a a left field question. I I love the idea of working from home. You know, Tim and I have been doing it since we started the business. We were doing it before we started the business. But is it a good thing? You know, certainly, I've got two well, they're adults now, but but kids. The concept for them of working remotely is terrifying. So they're both in kind of group environments. And I wonder whether or not, despite the fact I love it, I love the freedom it gives me, I love the productivity it gives me, is it actually a good thing?

Shane Spraggs [00:49:53]:

I'd have to answer yes. Simply, there are so many, so many elements that, you know, on the whole, if you, from certainly being able to give people, a lot of their life back. You know, they're saving people upwards of an hour and a half on average a day of commuting that isn't paid. And this takes, you know, I can't imagine adding an extra hour and a half to my day right now. Missing that for my family. And so I think it's good from a a human standpoint for the individuals who are doing it. I also believe it's a good thing for the businesses if they manage it well. They will get more out of their people.

Shane Spraggs [00:50:34]:

It creates more committed individuals. There's less turnover in remote businesses because people aren't suffering those same issues that they have in the office. And, and they tend to be more committed. And they save money along the way as well. So I think there's there's so many positives that come out of this. And, again, I'll be the first to admit it's not the that's not I'm not evangelizing it for everybody. There are people out there who are more productive and more, comfortable in an office setting.

Tim Hughes [00:51:07]:

So so Adam and I sometimes I mean, we we decided very early on not to have an office, because of the cost, and it costs Adam a hundred pounds a day to basically come into into London.

Shane Spraggs [00:51:19]:

Wow. Yeah.

Tim Hughes [00:51:21]:

And and so, Adam's a member of the Royal Society of arts. Royal Society of Arts. And, and we meet there, if we need to meet anywhere. So it's about having this third place, which is something we don't often talk about in in hybrid, and having that that rather than having an office, there's a place where we can go to, which where we know we can sit down, we can get a coffee, and we know that there's a table, and there's there's there's sockets and stuff like that. And that third place, I think, is not often talked about enough, isn't it?

Shane Spraggs [00:51:55]:

Absolutely. And, you know, and this is the this is the thing. It it's for you, it works because of your setup. Right? And so a lot of, you know, a lot of remote businesses my remote business right now is with a couple of individuals who live in town with me. We're all about ten minutes drive from each other. We get the benefit of not having an office. We don't pay for an office, and we can go to we can go together and, and spend time when necessary. In fact, we have a we have an event planned next Tuesday.

Shane Spraggs [00:52:23]:

We've called casual Tuesday networking events. We've specifically set up because we want to get people together in person again. And, you know, it's it's we we go to a local pub. We invited and it's been come it's been very successful. We have over a hundred people signed up for this week. And, and that's because we don't necessarily always get the, the connections we need from some people we are working with. We can get them from outside the office.

Tim Hughes [00:52:51]:

So, Charles j d Toucie makes a really good, comment, which he said, conversely, I think working in the office is terrifying for some young people, but there is such an opportunity for learning by osmosis in the office environment that I would not recommend pure remote work, remote working for everyone. Great comment. Thank you.

Bertrand Godillot [00:53:11]:

And we agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. Shane, thank you so much. This has been great. Where can people learn more? Where can we find you?

Shane Spraggs [00:53:22]:

Well, two places. You can get the, the book. I'll put my my plug out there for it, on Amazon. It's also available on Spotify. If you have a Spotify account, we have, or audible, we have a a, audiobook version of it. But I'm also here only

Tim Hughes [00:53:38]:

because this goes out on radio. I need to, so so people can't necessarily hear or see me putting this up. So so Shane's book is The Power of Remote, Building High Performing Organizations That Thrive in the Virtual Workplace, and it's, published by Forbes.

Shane Spraggs [00:53:57]:

Thanks so much. You. Yeah. Absolutely. And, the other place is, I'm the only Shane Spraggs on LinkedIn. So please reach out to me and and, connect. I'm always open for a conversation.

Bertrand Godillot [00:54:08]:

Excellent. Thank you for that. We now have a newsletter. Don't miss an episode. Get the show highlights, beyond the show insights, and reminders of upcoming episodes. You can scan the QR code on screen or visit us at digitaldownload.live/newsletter. On behalf of the panelists, to our guest, Shane, and to our audience, thank you all, and see you next time.

Tim Hughes [00:54:39]:

Thanks. Cheers, Shane. That was an excellent time.

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